Can you explain EPQ- is it good to have it or leave it?

[MollynAlly]

Our school offers EPQ, I was wondering if it is worth having it or instead of spending time on another project, focusing on her subjects would be better? DD picked biology, chemistry and psychology as her subjects! What are your thoughts on EPQ- has anyone's DC have any experience?

Focus on getting good A level grades. Not all unis are interested in EPQs, but 6th form colleges like them because they mean less free lessons to head off campus to maccers etc..
Your child will not be disadvantaged by not doing an EPQ

My child decided not to do the epq as they preferred to concentrate on the a levels, they got offers to read psychology from each of the 5 universities they applied to.

I think it’s AQA that offer the EPQ so it maybe worth checking on their website exactly how it works.
Annoyingly, DD1 did a mini version as the full EPQ wasn’t really encouraged. We are now looking at universities and a number of them will offer a grade lower if a student has a grade A or above in the EPQ. One course she’s looking at wants AAA but will reduce to AAB or AAA with an EPQ at A.
Given the mini version is compulsory at DCs school I’m encouraging my yr11 to seriously consider the full EPQ if she chooses 3 A- levels. If they start with 4 A levels (even if drop one later) they have to do the mini.
There’s a lot of chat about it being time consuming, hard work etc and I’m sure that’s very true especially if you’re aiming for a A*/A - and have to complete it before Easter in yr12 like DDs school. I know some schools don’t want it completed until after summer in yr12 going into yr13, which could make a difference. Again, it may depend on which A levels are being taken as if any are time consuming projects it maybe too much.
Definitely speak to your school about it. Ask if there are timetabled sessions or if it’s done totally in own time, what support they’ll get and what type of grades they usually get. Have a look at the degrees your DC is interested in to see if EPQ helps with grade offers.

I'd say to only do the epq if you have a subject you are passionate about that you'd want to write it on otherwise it's a hard slog.

I have a feeling that EPQ might be the new Mandarin, ie a dog whistle to the middle classes

As the best it can offer is a single grade reduction, I think you are better putting all that effort into the grade.

That's what I thought- focusing on getting the grades than splitting this time into EPQ- as she is undecided what she wants to do at uni, we haven't really looked into what they require. The subjects she chose are tough already and chemistry has a lot of practical course work apparently! At the end of the day if she gets BBC plus EPQ but will EPQ help if she gets lower A level grades?- I don't think so bit I wanted to check what you ladies thought about this! Many thanks

@MollynAlly I think it is worth considering an EPQ especially for very academic
kids. DD, who in y1 of a chemistry degree, did one. She applied for 4 Russel Group universities (and Bath). Her EPQ was chemistry based so it was a key part of her personal statement in her UCAS application.

I pretty certain the process of going through the EPQ will have helped her adapt to university work more easily.

DD still got 4xA* for her A-Levels. The key is not to let it drag out into y13. It takes around 100 hours of work.

Bath Uni gave DD several offers, including ‘low’ A Level grades with a good EPQ. The other unis did not include it in their offers.

I do agree though that if you think the EPQ
is likely to dilute the A Level grades, it is best not to do it.

My DD (Yr12) is doing an EPQ alongside 3 A levels: Latin, Classical Greek and Ancient History.
At her school it is completed in Yr12 so she will have the grade for her UCAS application.
I don’t think it’s useful to view it simply as something that may or may not result in a lower grade offer.
To me, it’s an extra qualification that if successfully completed can demonstrate that the student has the necessary skill sets to undertake a degree. It could also form part of the PS.
As has been previously mentioned, only do one if you’re passionate about a particular topic.

Cross post with @dizzydizzydizzy

I would say look at the uni/ course your dc want to do post a level. Entry requirements will say if and epq is useful or not . Seems only an Agrade is wanted. Some uni’s do drop an offer grade with an a grade epq. Whether that is worth it or not I am not sure

There’s some data which suggests students who complete an EPQ settle into university better and achieve better generally, so I’m very keen on them. They’re especially useful for a student who wants to do a university degree in something they haven’t previously studied before.

But delivery of the EPQ does vary hugely between schools, I’ve seen it delivered brilliantly and abysmally so it’s worth a good look at that and maybe a chat to a sixth former who is doing it to see how the land lies.

I wouldn’t recommend any EPQ that stretches past September of Y13

"I have a feeling that EPQ might be the new Mandarin, ie a dog whistle to the middle classes"

I'm starting to wonder the same.
Ds1 is just starting his EPQ. Is it really worth the effort?

Taking onboard the mandarin comments, my dd is really glad she did the epq. She did get lower offers from 4/5 universities she applied to and this meant that she got in to her first choice automatically this year, even with the first algorithm grades!

It is hard work -lots of students start one but drop it, but I think it’s taught her loads from outside the curriculum about managing a big project plus independent research skills etc which will help now she is at uni

I teach EPQ in years 12 & 13. Both my DDs did it. In terms of the skills it covers, it is a great stepping-stone from GCSE/A level spoon-feeding to university study. We do the WJEC version as the AQA one was too inconsistent.

The skills covered include planning, research, synthesising information, analysing sources, evaluating and presenting your findings in addition to the dissertation or artefact. My own DDs found they smoothed the transition to university; DD1's 3rd year literature review was like a longer and more in-depth version of the EPQ.

For students who are unsure what they want to study, it can really help them to make up their minds. Someone studying Bio/Chem/Psy for A levels could be considering medicine or psychology. So why not look into something along those lines? I have a student in y13 whose EP is engineering-based but who has now applied for medicine. He was concerned about this being brought up at interview, but my advice was to say that he chose the topic at the start of year 12. Whilst he has enjoyed it, it has made him realise that Engineering is not for him as he would miss the day to day interaction with people which is key to medicine.

One of my y13s is aiming for PPE. She has written & illustrated a children's book in a foreign language (nothing to do with Politics and she is not studying the language for A level). She has already had an offer from Cardiff stating that if she gets a grade A/A in EPQ, her offer is reduced across all 3 A level grades. Unless her final presentation is dire, she is heading for an A. She is hoping to present to me the 2nd week back.

As far as completing it in year 12 is concerned, yes it's a good idea to get the bulk of the reading/research done then plus a draft of the final outcome. However, both my DDs finished in year 13. DD1 put most of hers together in the Christmas holidays, DD2 had written her essay before that, but spent Christmas sorting out referencing & source analysis. Both got A* or A and both had cleared it before their mocks.

EPQs are great if your dc doesn't have any other experience in writing academic essays.

Thank you so much ladies, the recent comments are actually mind opening- my DD first thought it would be a good idea to explore more something to do with psychology if she did EPQ but then the amount of writing involved scared her! She is not great at creative writing or explaining in details. In fact now I am thinking it might be good to gave it especially for her to enhance her writing skills. The reason she chose psychology is to have one essay subject EPQ might support that too

I am thinking of it like a way to build a subject tailored personal statement. And I understand grades are important, but disagree with the trend towards telling dc not to get a weekend job/not bother with EPQ / not do D of E. Personally I think these extras build your academic and personal skills and are crucial not for university admissions but for personal development.

@ScrapThatThen I totally agree, haven't looked at it this way but you are right. My DD is doing DoE at the moment mind you it has stopped sort of, she can't work at charity shops anymore but looking for alternatives. Our school also offers core maths she is also considering this to complement the maths elements in chemistry and biology- but as I see now EPQ is worth considering I will encourage her

My sons 6th form made him drop from 4 subjects to 3 and then talked him into doing a EPQ qualification. He actually spent a lot of time on it and he did enjoy it. They said it would give him extra UCAS points, but it didn’t.

@Mindymomo sorry to disagree but the EPQ does carry UCAS points. I think it is worth 0.5 of an A level. Here is a link: qips.ucas.com/qip/extended-project-qualification-epq

I have seen a number of students not quite make their offer on A level results day but on phoning their first choice institution, their EPQ has secured them the place. These are highly regarded institutions like Imperial and UCL. So although I have a vested interest in keeping as many of my students on track, I can see the bigger picture.

It sounds like your students receive support malbec. Given my yr13 DD was encouraged not to do it and my yr11 DD has had 2 sessions this term on why not to do it, I’m concerned that there’ll be a lack of support and thus a millstone. My yr11 DD is likely choosing 3 essay subjects for A level albeit has a great idea for an EPQ. Where could she find more supportive info please?

I think its all a question of bandwidth.

If your DC has plenty of spare bandwidth, then of course its worth studying deeply something of academic interest which teaches new skills just of itself.

If they have no bandwidth, don’t touch it with a barge pole.

If they are middling, I would think very hard about what it achieves or adds to their life path. That is a question really best answered by you and your dc rather than the school who may have a slightly different agenda, eg time management.

FWIW my 1st DC was in the category of don’t touch within a barge pole and give all of your concentration to your A level grades. He got 5 good University offers and the lack of a EPQ was never mentioned. I have a feeling its a bit like Grade 8 music and Gold DoE - people who have them like to think it matters/counts but really they each are an achievement of itself, and not necessarily a properly transferable one to university entrance.

I think its all a question of bandwidth.
Has this got owt to do with dog whistles?

Lol. Do you only hear the dog whistle if you have lots of bandwidth? .

I’ve just read on another thread that if a DC is doing History and/or Eng Lit they have coursework investigative essays so if they’re doing these A levels an EPQ may be a bit much. It really does seem to depend on the A level choices, the DC, the school support. I’m sure it’s a worthwhile experience providing it doesn’t negatively impact other grades.