GCSE: two individual science subjects instead of combined science?!

[gcsepanicmum]

DS's school doesn't offer triple science so everyone was supposed to do combined science. It was a bit of shame as he was really strong at maths and science. But it was still OK as I knew triple science wasn't a necessity to study a science subject for A-level and at uni.

Today, I found out that the school was planning to drop combined science and instead encouraging the pupils to do chemistry and biology as a separate subject (no physics). DS knows it will narrow down his choices for A-level so feels a bit sad but says he would do chemistry for A-level anyway. It's true he really likes chemistry at the moment but he's as good at physics. He might change his preference then regret he let physics go so early. They still cover physics in lessons though, at least for now.

I am trying to understand the impact of this for his future. I see physics will be 100% out but what else I should know? Doing only two individual science subjects is going to be a disadvantage if he wants to pursue a science subject/career later? I am seriously thinking if we should move him before too late. He's very capable academically.

Ah, that's interesting re online courses. I suppose some physics practicals could be simulated quite well - virtual electrical circuits, optics etc, and many would be amenable to doing at home from a kit. Harder for chemistry!

I think that they have just responded to the increasing demand even pre covid for a range of homeschooling qualifications. Whether an online GCSE would be regarded in quite the same way by a stuffy RG physics professor is another matter but for OP's son in conjunction with a face to face A level and an explanation of their commitment to the subject it would keep options open. I am no expert though, just looked into it for one of mine for a different subject.

OP even if your son is very happy at this school I would personally need to consider very carefully if this decision reflected an overall low standard of academics. If there was another reason to stay (eg it offers vocational training or other unique offering) then definitely consider the online GCSE.

I'd have thought someone doing an online gcse because the subject wasn't offered by the school would go down very well, if anything. (I don't remember physics profs being particularly stuffy when I did it as a subsid 4 decades ago, by the by.)

I didn't mean that physics professors particularly were stuffy, just that I know in my discipline some professors would love that the student had been motivated to study independently whereas other more stuffy ones would be saying that an online course couldn't be as good as a face to face one. Depends on their individual perspective.

There are loads of resources that can help with the practical side if the student does physics online. You only need an awareness of the set up and common errors, which if you are focused you could do via YouTube.

There is some ambiguity if only offering 2 of the sciences is a broad and balanced curriculum. I don’t know if anyone has been pulled up on it but it would be the route I would go down if the school do make this announcement. Just offering a smattering of physics is neither broad or balanced.

You could also contact the institute of physics for advise.

Looking at the national curriculum document assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/840002/Secondary_national_curriculum_corrected_PDF.pdf#page68

I have found these 2 gems. So they really should be teaching all three during key stage 4. Unless they are an independent school, in which case they can do what they want.

Thank you for finding the information TheLetterZ. But it's an independent school, so yes, they can do what they want. 😞

@gcsepanicmum

Thank you for finding the information TheLetterZ. But it's an independent school, so yes, they can do what they want. 😞

Which inspection body are they under?

Unless they are an independent school, in which case they can do what they want.

Or an academy. Or a free school.

@CarrieBlue

Unless they are an independent school, in which case they can do what they want.

Or an academy. Or a free school.

All state funded schools must provide a broad and balanced curriculum, which includes academies and free schools.

Whether this includes all three sciences is yet to be tested. Until it is challenged schools will push it.

I didn't think this was even allowed. We looked at doing something similar once for our very lowest students who were struggling to get 1/2, but ruled it out very quickly

Interestingly, my 6th form daughter was just telling me about filling out a survey from her (also independent) school regarding science GCSE options. They have been offering separate sciences, with students allowed to either choose two or do all three. They appear to be considering whether offering combined science is a better option / might be preferred by students.

My daughter was able to take this opportunity to tell them what she realised towards the end of her GCSE year - that she could easily have taken physics GCSE early and would have loved to have done so and done something else in its place. When she was choosing GCSE options originally we encouraged her to consider dropping biology if she wanted as we felt we could easily substitute the learning at home. Admittedly she is bright, and it also appears her prep school science teacher extended them a fair way in physics (at a small and non-selective prep), but she told me after doing her GCSE exams that she wished she'd had the opportunity to take physics GCSE in year 8 when she didn't need to do CE ...

I agree that not offering physics at all sounds quite worrying. But if this change goes ahead and changing schools is not practical for some reason, then yes I think a bright student should be able to self-study the physics and I would aim to arrange that.

Interesting, Pythonesque. I understand the logic behind students giving a choice between combined science and three separate sciences according to the ability. But giving a choice between combined science and two separate sciences? I can't see the benefit of choosing only two separate sciences over combined science except it being offered as an option for students who are struggling one particular science.

We have a parent meeting next term. If it's conformed that the change really is happening, we'll definitely discuss the options for DS, whether he should self-study etc.

I would consider moving school over that. Combined/triple/physics is a prerequisite for physics a level which in turn is a prerequisite for many courses not just physics, my dd is studying engineering, which this country desperately needs I might add. No child at 14 should be made to decide not to be an engineer quite frankly, all kids capable should do combined or triple science

Not sure if anyone still reads this thread but here is the update.

I contacted to school after all. I've got the reply today and it confirmed that it wasn't a rumour. The decision was made already, apparently.

They said the removal of physics would not narrow the options since they would not offer physics for a level. So empathising on the subjects that they offer for a level at gcse would prepare pupils better for the next stage. They also said there isn't any legitimate grounding in the rumour that chemistry as a single subject is more difficult than combined science. The reason for this decision also seems to be due to the specialised areas of their teachers - they are specialists in chemistry and biology but not in physics.

Fair enough - I knew they wouldn't offer physics for a level. But I also knew a bit of shifting happened after gcse every year because some pupils decided to do physics for a-level. Although DS is leaning towards maths and chemistry, not physics, right now, I would have wanted him to have the choice to go somewhere else if he changed his mind and wanted to do physics. You never know how they change in a couple of years.

Having said that, I may juts accept this, and hope all works fine in the end. DS is very happy there - he likes his friends, teachers and all the curriculums and opportunities the school offers. If I knew this change was coming a year ago I may have moved him but he's now Y9. It's a bit messy to move him now, especially when he says he wouldn't want to.

If he's bright and wants to do physics, I'd encourage him to study it outside of school and sit it as a private candidate. It would need to be an International GCSE because there is no practical sign off. Not doing physics for a child who likes maths is a huge mistake I think.

As a parent with science and maths focused children I would be moving school.

I find it astonishing, scrub that, outrageous that a school can decide not to teach physics to secondary school children.

I would be disgusted if I was paying for an education and not getting one of the most important GCSE subjects, which is mandatory in state schools.

For someone good at maths, they really should not be ruling out physics at the age of 14. It would be an absolute travesty.

Could you negotiate lower school fees on the basis he will have go for physics privately?

I know you don’t want to move him and it’s a bad age to move schools.

However think about it, he will be in a very tiny proportion of people in the country who haven’t done physics GCSE (

Sounds a very poor school to be doing this. 1 of my DDs did maths at uni and 1 did engineering - physics at GCSE was essential.

I wouldn't pay to go to a school where they don't deem it necessary to teach a core science. But I take your point that it's tricky when your DC is in Year 9. Really don't understand why they can't just employ a physics specialist (yes I know physics teachers are in short supply, but was it really impossible to find one)? Like you, I'd also wonder how easy it will make him moving to another school for sixth form (if that's what he wants to do), especially to study sciences, if he doesn't have any physics at GCSE Level.

My DS hated physics and ranted and raved against why he had to do it when he was in Year 9. He's now taking it for A Level and is thinking it is something he might want to continue. (sorry OP, not what you wanted to hear).

I would be disgusted if I was paying for an education and not getting one of the most important GCSE subjects, which is mandatory in state schools

Completely agree! And it's very poor not to offer Physics A Level, I've never heard of that at any school, state or private.

And it gives a very poor message to students that somehow Physics is less important than the other sciences.

Back in my day, you could choose to do one, two or three separate sciences. I did two - Chemistry and Physics. But I think the dual award GCSE they do now is much better as they study all 3 and how they relate to each other. Gives a much better understanding of science as a whole.

You COULD look into him doing it privately as has been suggested above. But why should you? You are already paying a fortune for his education.

A lot can happen to A Level choices between now and Year 12 OP. You don't want to limit his choices like you say.

I know you say he is happy at the school and doesn't want to move but ultimately he is there to be educated and if the school can't offer a broad curriculum at GCSE I would move him.

They said the removal of physics would not narrow the options since they would not offer physics for a level. So empathising on the subjects that they offer for a level at gcse would prepare pupils better for the next stage.. Can be paraphrased as ‘limiting your STEM courses even earlier will make it inevitable that you will have to renounce many STEM degrees options (even some chemistry ones) and remove a reason for leaving our sixth form’.
The leadership team should just be honest as to their teaching limitations. They should try to facilitate access and study time for an online GCSE course.

I too would find it hard to countenance paying for an education but it not including a core science!