Secondary application- tying myself in knots!

[funtimefrank]

I have yr 6 twins. Above average academically but not stellar (Dd2 stronger than dd1). Semi rural, comprehensive only, no 11+ in our area.

2 options - one is a newly high flying academy. Good gcse results, excellent on the attainment 8 score. Great facilities and links with community. My ex teacher mother thinks it looks great. But it makes me exhausted. It's so in your face. Dd1 scared of it (partly as her friends are mostly applying to the other school but also some fundamental discomfort).

Option two is closer. Has a needs improvement ofstead but the most recent report (jan last year) was hugely positive about improvement, discipline and pastoral care was always good in any case and it's becoming an academy with a trust which has a small roster of schools which have all improved with them. Sports facilities good (dds both sporty so this is important) plus community minded, drama and music clubs (dd1 is a great guitarist). Parents I know with kids there all happy. Gcse results slightly above average with girls doing much better than average (which does suck but I have girls.....). Mother approves of maths curriculum as ex secondary school maths teacher and gcse tutor.

So I am tending towards school 2 mostly because it doesn't make me want to rip my ears off with constant talk of Russell Groups every 30 seconds. However my final pauses are:

School 2 only does one language but does do the option of 3 separate sciences. Dd2 is very much a maths/science person so this is good for her but not sure about dd1 who is more humanities/arts focused I would guess. Although who really knows at 10!

School 2 chooses gcse options in year 9 whereas school 1 chooses in year 8. This is a new shift post ofstead and has been commended so I'm guessing a good thing but what's the difference?

I am totally in over thinking territory now - the academic child of teachers in me makes me think I must put school 1 down first but i don't really want to!

What does the Progress 8 look like at both schools? I think this is a more valuable indicator than Attainment 8 (which may only be telling you that the children takes more bright children). If you go on www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/ you can also break down results by high/medium/low achievers.

If school 2 gets above average results then it's not as though you are choosing between the best school in the area and the worst - actually it sounds like you have 2 good schools to choose from. I'd be perfectly happy to pick school 2 :)

My DC's school chooses GCSEs in Year 8. The main disadvantage is having to specialise earlier (though this suited one child who had disengaged from half his subjects). The main advantage is more time to study the subjects (which can turn into a disadvantage is the school simply rushes through the syllabus and then makes the DC revise for 3 months, but my experience is that some of the time has been used to cover items that are outside of the GCSE syllabus).

I would put school 2 as my first preference too.
In my view extra-curricular activities at secondary level that suit your dcs are very important and so is good pastoral care. School 2 seems to have a much better balance and provide a good all-round experience.
I suspect that school 1 may be narrowing the curriculum by having year 8 options and possibly gaming the Performance 8 system by encouraging pupils to take the subjects that maximise the scores for the school.
Could the slightly lower scores for school 2 be because pupils have a freer choice of GCSE options perhaps?

Thank you

I did the comparison and the schools come out pretty even on everything except Progress 8 where school 1 is a one and school 2 is a 0. So it pushes success more.

DH wants school 2. Dd1 wants school 2 (Dd2 doesn't care, she just wants to make friends bless her). I have a lot of connections in terms of tutoring and can afford a bit of cash to throw at it as well if needs be.

It's school 2 isn't it.

Yes, school 2.

Im a teacher and wouldn't choose a school with Yr 8 options (effectively chosen after 18 mths of those subjects). Far too narrow.

If you are semi rural, do the schools only take students within their catchment areas? We're rural and oversubscribed and often refuse places to students out of catchment... just a thought x

Another thing I'd suggest is to pick the school for DD1 only. There is absolutely no reason why DD2 can't go to a different school to her sister if another school suits her better.

@Qwom - you are right. There is a strong chance we'll not get into school 1 so a lot of my thought process has been centred around why school 2 would still be a good option as it is where we're very likely to end up.

We did think about splitting them and going to different schools for quite a long time but ultimately they didn't want to be separated so have decided to keep them together as they are more likely to flourish when they feel secure.

Thank you. I think that button can be pressed today!

Yes, sounds like School 2 is the one for you.

FWIW, not sure how long School 1 will still choose options in Y8 as that was a thing for a while but (so far as I understand) is not looked on that well by Ofsted under the new framework.

If there's much of a difference in travel time that's another vote for school 2. Don't knock the advantage of an extra 45 minutes a day to play with for extra-curricular stuff! It's also likely to make it easier to stay for after-school activities and to meet up with friends.

Does anyone have any thoughts on minster school Southwell? I’m thinking of putting that school down for my child?

Go with your gut.

We are also semi rural, no 11+ etc.

3 secondary comps within reasonable distance, not much between them in regards to results etc

When we were deciding for DS1 School A (catchment) was having teacher strikes, school B had just had a brand spanking all dancing building built, and school C which had been in special measures 5 years previously had had an amazing report since the new head teacher.

We went with school A for various reasons as well as gut feeling. 2.5 years on there’s a new head teacher and the school is really good. Out of the 3 during lockdown we were very impressed with the support and home learning whereas friends with children at the other 2 schools weren’t happy with what was provided.

@citygirl200 The Minster is a very popular school. Do you live in Southwell? Do you attend church regularly?

Look at the admissions policies; you might not get into one of them anyway. Ask about pastoral support, about how may students tend to go on to do A Levels, and what the ones who don't tend to do. Ask about behaviour policies, and the school development plans. They're all things that give you a bit more of a window into how a school ticks than the bare numbers of Progress and Attainment 8.

Then go with your gut instinct, and remember, if the worst comes to the worst and it's the wrong choice, you can apply for an in-year transfer, which might not come immediately, but secondaries do have movement.

And yy that Ofsted is now frowning on taking GCSE options in Y8, they are more about 'broad balanced curriculum', keeping a wide variety of subjects till the end of Y9.

I think though it depends on your child as to whether choosing options in yr8 is good or bad. One of mine had a narrowing of options going into yr9 and then a further narrowing into yr10. She is so much happier having given up some subjects in yr8. She is fairly academic / science based and would have chosen those subjects anyway. She is so pleased to have dropped music, art etc. She hated them and says it is much better now there are fewer lessons she dreads. A different dc did three languages for far too long for their liking. I think for a child with more of an interest in sciences options earlier works well, however for a child interested in creative subjects it is not as good. I do think that the arts are under valued in the education system but on an individual level she is much happier.