Teacher training bursaries slashed/axed in response to pandemic (but Classics still qualifies)

[noblegiraffe]

Next year's teacher training bursaries have been announced and it's clear that they're expecting that there will be a large boost in people applying to teach due to the covid recession.

Bursaries of £24k for secondary maths, physics, chemistry and computer studies students
£10k for MFL and classics
£7k for biology

Other subjects and phases will not be supported.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/funding-initial-teacher-training-itt/funding-initial-teacher-training-itt-academic-year-2021-to-2022

They'd better hope that the increase in recruitment isn't accompanied by a large number of teachers jumping ship in response to how they've been treated by the government, especially as there's a concern there won't be enough experienced teachers available to mentor the bumper crop of trainees.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-huge-concerns-over-post-covid-school-mentor-shortage

Also....Classics still on the list. They all ship out to private schools the minute they qualify. The Tories always find money for their mates...

It’s not that there shouldn’t be classics and it’s great that it is being taught in schools but why is it getting prioritised for bursaries when primary maths and other subjects aren’t. There is a real need for primary maths specialists. My daughter in year 5 now has the maths specialist as her class teacher. The difference is noticeable. (She does really enjoy maths, and happily does extra..... and he is stretching her in a way that her previous teachers who mainly stuck to the planning didn’t.)

@WhenSheWasBad

I’m pretty appalled Classics is on there. I’ve never seen classics taught anywhere other than Private schools.

Also loads of Biologists (and chemists) teach Physics.

Loads of biology and some chemistry teachers teach physics because there is a shortage of physics teachers (and chemistry teachers too). Biology pgce places are usually oversubscribed.

Science secondary pgce expects that you teach all three to gcse, specialism only comes into play for a-level. There are not enough physics graduates becoming teachers and haven’t been for a very long time.

I love Latin, studied it for 7 years (at my private all girls school), and would be thrilled if my kids were offered it at their school, but I wouldn’t single it out amongst all the funding crises we have for schools right now, to support the training of Classics teachers above almost all else.

@WhenSheWasBad

I’m pretty appalled Classics is on there. I’ve never seen classics taught anywhere other than Private schools.

Also loads of Biologists (and chemists) teach Physics.

DS just left Requires Improvement comp that taught Latin for GCSE to top set linguists, which he did and loved, and Classical Studies A level. Most of the private schools round here don't teach anything but Spanish and Mandarin now.

@foxesandsquirrels

I doubt an influx of teachers due to a drying job market will help teacher retention. Going for teaching because there's nothing else is a pretty low bar. They'll just leave in droves when this is over or once they step into a classroom or have to teach Y8 science with an English degree

Pretty much this. I’ve mentored many PGCE students and NQTs over the years and the ones who were doing it for the right reasons would have done so with or without the bursaries. (I trained in the days when it was £2000/£3000, can’t remember which, and it was taxable so it made no odds to me). In my experience of working with universities and talking to other mentors there are lots of students who train for the bursary and then leave within a couple of years-indeed it makes up part of their career plan.

I’ve always said that if they truly want to beat the retention crisis, they should use the money to incentivise staying the the profession for longer periods of time. A bonus at 5 years/ 10 years/ 20 years etc.

Here are last year's bursary figures:

Subject Scholarship Bursary
Physics £28,000 £26,000
Secondary mathematics £28,000 £26,000
Computing £28,000 £26,000
Languages £28,000 £26,000
Chemistry £28,000 £26,000
Geography £17,000 £15,000
Trainees cannot receive both the scholarship and training bursary.

Bursaries are also available in the below subjects
Subject Bursary
Classics £26,000
Biology £26,000
Design and technology £15,000
English £12,000
History £9,000
RE £9,000
Music £9,000
Art and Design £9,000
Business Studies £9,000
Primary with mathematics £6,000

So the subjects they have decided to retain are the obvious ones for the economy where we currently import skills - maths, comp sci, languages and sciences.

Of all the rest, they retain Classics.

If those teachers had been trained for the state sector it would have still been a dubious decision in the circumstances where every other 'not completely vital' subject has been dropped, but indefensible when the money is being spent for the benefit of the private sector which is where most of those teachers will end up.

It would be very interesting to see the rationale for the decision (and please let's not just have the boring knee-jerk MN 'because all Tory MPs went to private schools' trope). Is there evidence that the subjects on the list would be under threat if more teachers are not recruited to teach them? Yes, it's a shame that Classics isn't taught at more state schools, but it would also be a massive cultural shame if the subject died out. Does the economic argument stack up? Pupils doing Classics, even those at private schools, are still pupils, who will (largely) go on to enter the UK workforce and generate tax revenue for the economy. The classicists I know well are variously now teachers (both state and private), lawyers, librarians, accountants and executive managers. Is there less of an economic (not an emotional) argument for investing in their teaching than that of others? I don't know the answers to either of these questions, but I would like to - rather than seeing the same old 'Classics is an arcane subject for poshos' reaction that I have met all my life.

There are some real enthusiasts for getting classics going in state schools : but this drive isn't coming from the government at all. It is coming from various groups.

Lots of classics teachers aren't PGCE trained in classics (many are historians, MFL) so I don't think we 'need ' a huge bursary for classics trainees.

It's not in danger of dying out : numbers also aren't growing so hugely that we urgently need teachers.

I can't see this being anything other than driven by the government's ideological love of the free school and the MAT many of which offer classics for elitist reasons, it does have to be acceded.

My school does classics and it is definitely not ideologically driven but neither of the teachers are classics trained.

@noblegiraffe

Sorry to hear that Zola, were you relying on there being a bursary for your subject?

Yes, 12k for secondary English. I've got 18 months of a PhD left to do so hopefully someone somewhere fixes this before then...

Piggy you might be completely right. But I would really like to see the govt rationale for how they choose the subjects they choose to fund. (Just one push back at your post by the way - when other subjects eg sciences are being taught by non specialists that's often seen as a cause for lament, including on this thread. Isn't it arguable that if classics is being taught by non classics specialists, that suggests a need for more trained Latin teachers?)

Ah yes. Let’s get people trained in fluffy subjects. English and Maths are still shortage subjects (we’ve got unqualified staff teaching both) and frankly all students need good staff in those subject before anything else. Classics doesn’t lead to a solid knowledge of grammar, spelling or subtraction unfortunately.

classics is being taught by non classics specialists, that suggests a need for more trained Latin teachers?

I’d love to know where all these schools are that teach Classics. None in my area / MAT. None in the areas of Brighton / Kent / Sussex where I’ve previously taught either.

Good. I approve of this. I get enquiries all the time asking about bursary subjects from people who have entirely unsuitable qualifications and who disappear after the training year.

Now now. I teach English and appreciate your support but a) English at secondary doesn't 'teach' grammar and b) Latin does.

I don't believe in such a nonsense as fluffy subjects.

almost, I am a non specialist, technically, in tow subjects I teach and ma rather good, honest.

Our non specialist classics teachers are still bloody good teachers.

two ...

But I would really like to see the govt rationale for how they choose the subjects they choose to fund.

Tbh I assumed that someone running a struggling Classics PGCE is mates with someone at the DfE who helps set the bursaries.

typing not a specialism!

I teach primary, truly entrenched after 20 years, and rarely peep over the sides of my professional furrow, so had no idea this was a thing. I'm pretty sure no bursaries are available for those who wish to train to teach primary? Loans all the way, by the looks of it. This is such a pity, because primary education makes a fantastic home for the most consummate, dedicated pedagogues.

There's never any shortage of primary school teachers (except primary maths) to warrant an incentive Adult.

Which always baffles me as primary workload is so awful, and yet people queue up to do it!

Fingers crossed, Zola* that it sorts itself out in a couple of years. You could consider a salaried route if you can't afford a PGCE - PhDs tend to have teaching experience?

@noblegiraffe

Good to see on the gov bursary page that they’re still plugging away with Troops to Teachers.

Did any troops make it to become teacher in the end?

HerdyGerdy I know I'm biased, but I would argue that studying Latin leads to a better grasp of English grammar and spelling than almost any other subject. And at a higher level (A level and particularly degree level), classics teaches a particularly good breadth of skills, because of the combination of language, grammar, history, literature and philosophy it covers - it's very good at teaching a combination of linguistic, analysis, research and writing skills. Its cross-disciplinary nature also means it appeals to an unusually broad spectrum of students - on a classics degree course it's not uncommon to find students who've studied a wide mix of other A levels, such as Latin/MFL/MFL, Latin/English/History, Latin/Maths/Economics.

Piggy, I'm really not knocking you or your classics teachers - I just thought it was an interesting point, as I so often hear people on MN and in RL saying how awful it is that their child is having physics lessons from a chemistry teacher or maths lessons from a non-maths teacher or whatever, because of teacher shortages. So I was just querying that if that's a problem, why is it fine to have Latin taught by a French teacher? Maybe those kinds of complaints are a parental perspective though, more than an actual reflection of a genuine problem in the classroom.

@madderose

Good. I approve of this. I get enquiries all the time asking about bursary subjects from people who have entirely unsuitable qualifications and who disappear after the training year.

Oh well I'm glad that you'll have to deal with fewer enquiries. Meanwhile, all the people who want to train in the subject they're qualified for but can't afford to now there's no bursary can just go and work somewhere else.

At least it'll make your life easier though

@ZolaGrey not just my life, it is not in the interests of children to be taught by student teachers who are not committed to the profession long term and who train for the single year's financial incentive, something I have seen time and time again.

It was an incentive to address a supply issue, not an entitlement. It's not going to be required as an incentive any more because the stability provided by employment as a teacher post pandemic is incentive enough.