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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Detention for lateness

51 replies

foxesandsquirrels · 12/10/2020 15:52

DD 12 is very studious, has never ever been in trouble and has never had a demerit or a detention. She is very scared of getting in trouble and we've actually had a problem with her leaving for school way too early and standing outside the gates for ages. This morning she left 1hr before school starts (20 min bus and 10min walk- v busy road so can't walk) and there was so much traffic she was late to school. She walked some part of it which I was angry about as otherwise she would've got there after 1st period.
I don't know how many other kids were effected but she has been given 2 demerits and a 1hr detention. This was absolutely out of her control and she couldn't have done anything to fix it.
I called her key worker (she has SEN) and explained the situation. She said the school is very strict on lateness and she will have to sit the detention tomorrow. I want to tell her that she is absolutely not going to this detention. She will start leaving the house at 6am! Am I unreasonable? There is no way I'd be penalised like this at work.

OP posts:

Original poster

foxesandsquirrels · 12/10/2020 16:58

Oh there's definitely sanctions for any demerits. She wouldn't be able to go on a rewards trip this half term for example.
My gripe is with the fact that she hasn't done anything and she's being penalised. She was very proud of the fact she has had no demerits. This is a kid that got the most merits in her house last year and won a free residential trip place. She doesn't mess around with merits lol. They're a big deal to her and getting a demerit for something she didn't do is very unfair.

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FrancesFlute · 12/10/2020 17:53

Firstly, great news on the detention!

I think you need to escalate the demerit issue to her HOY who might be able to amend. It really isn't fair she still has that 'against' her when the merits are obviously a great source of pride to her

Fingers crossed

cologne4711 · 12/10/2020 21:11

There is no legal reason why they can't remove the demerit. Stick to your guns and insist, OP. What nonsense.

Original poster

foxesandsquirrels · 13/10/2020 07:23

@cologne4711 I have a feeling im starting to look a bit crazy being so adamant she gets the demerit taken off. They have tons of kids self isolating so maybe my merit isn't so huge in the context. I will email the HOY but ill leave it after that.

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Longdistance · 13/10/2020 07:32

Ask the Head if one of his staff was late for work, would he dock their wages and make them stay longer? I very much doubt it.
They need to rethink their punishment for lateness. They need to listen to their pupils otherwise they are failing them. Poor show on their part.

SonEtLumiere · 13/10/2020 07:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

foxesandsquirrels · 13/10/2020 07:58

@@SonEtLumiere I know the school may disagree with me on this but I do make a big point to her that the school rules aren't there for her. If every child was like her they wouldn't need them. I also never criticise the school in front of her, although yesterday was hard when she came home in tears.
This school is one of those Michaela style schools. I have no intention of starting a debate about them, that's where her language provision is and so she went there. I have no complaints and so far it's worked very well. She'd never been later before though so I did not know that this is the stance they take. I suspect they think they are being very lenient getting rid of the detention.
The problem is the merit system is something that was very motivating for her. She is not academic in the slightest and does not get any rewards aside from 'biggest trier' or the merits.
The good news is she's in a group of friends with a bunch of girls who are exactly like her and she's now the first to get a detention and demerits. They were all very supportive and angry at the school and are writing them a letter. This was quite cute and I was glad to hear she wasn't made to look like a baby for being upset.

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SonEtLumiere · 13/10/2020 08:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prh47bridge · 13/10/2020 08:17

The attendance officer said she cannot take the demerit away as it comes on automatically when she marks a child in late and legally she cannot amend the mark.

There is no legal bar to amending the attendance register. The amendment must include the original entry, the amended entry, the date of the amendment, the reason for the amendment and the name and position of the person making the amendment. Education (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2006 regulation 13(2).

Original poster

foxesandsquirrels · 13/10/2020 08:21

@prh47bridge I think if I quote them this they will think I'm a proper lunatic thank you though! That's very interesting.

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LolaSmiles · 13/10/2020 08:29

prh47bridge
How would that work for changing the register to be incorrect out of interest?
The OP's daughter was late. It wasn't her fault, but she was late. Wouldn't changing the register be falsifying the records?

Apologies for the question, it's something I've wondered and I know you're knowledgeable in this area.

Surely in this situation, the school should change their situation for how demerits are issued rather than change register marks to be false to prevent demerits automatically being awarded? At my school the late detentions are manually filtered from system in a few minutes so nobody with a genuine reason gets sanctioned.

Original poster

foxesandsquirrels · 13/10/2020 08:32

@lolasmiles I think she just mentioned that due to the wording I used when quoting the attendance officer. The mark is not wrong, she was late. The problem is definitely that it automatically gives the demerit which is absolutely ridiculous and goes some way to explaining why most kids don't care about them.

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prh47bridge · 13/10/2020 08:59

@LolaSmiles - I was looking at the law. Having now looked at the attendance codes, there doesn't appear to be one for a pupil who is unavoidably late. There is one for a pupil who is unavoidably absent, but it seems the register doesn't distinguish between pupils who are unavoidably late (unless the lateness is caused by a medical or dental appointment) and those who are simply late without good reason.

I agree that the automatic demerit is ridiculous.

LolaSmiles · 13/10/2020 09:00

foxesandsquirrels
That's why I wanted to check with prh47bridge about the rules regarding changing the register to something false because I'd have thought it would be illegal to falsify the register marks.
It may be legal to override the register and there's good reasons to do it in some circumstances, but changing a late mark to present would seem wrong to me.

Your school really should change its system for issuing demerits so either a head of year can remove them, or they should stop them being automatically awarded without room for genuine situations.

Comefromaway · 13/10/2020 09:22

@SonEtLumiere

I fully understand your position but... could you use it as a learning experience too.

Yes the rule is strict
No she didn’t do anything wrong and is caught up in a rule.
Can she be tough/resilient enough to accept the penalty without further discussion.

You are not angry with her, no-one at home or school is really cross. So could she choose to accept the penalty as a way of supporting the school?

Kids with SEN have enough to deal with in their lives without constantly being asked to be resilient. The effort it takes just to get through a normal day is phenomenal.

Original poster

foxesandsquirrels · 13/10/2020 09:25

Yes I agree. I think this automatic entry doesn't leave students with much respect towards the sanction. Saying this, I doubt I'm the only parent that's been annoyed about this so I doubt my complaint will hold much weight.

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BackBeatTheWordisOnTheStreet · 13/10/2020 10:14

@lanthanum that sounds a very sensible policy. If you only leave 2 minutes leeway in the morning and the bus is late then it's your fault but if they leave plenty of time and are still late that's beyond their control.

Original poster

foxesandsquirrels · 13/10/2020 11:31

Just had a phone call saying DD has got another demerit for not doing any work in History as she thinks there's no point in trying if they're going to give her demerits for something she didn't do.
Argh I don't agree with her behaviour at all but I understand why she's angry. I think her and her friends planned this revolt at breaktime.

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unmarkedbythat · 13/10/2020 11:37

Just had a phone call saying DD has got another demerit for not doing any work in History as she thinks there's no point in trying if they're going to give her demerits for something she didn't do.

It's going to be quite hard to argue with that, isn't it?

Original poster

foxesandsquirrels · 13/10/2020 11:45

Yes exactly. But she needs to know that this is not the way to solve these problems and there will always be rules that are unfair and effect her unfairly. In a way I'm glad she's learning this in the safety of Y8.

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LolaSmiles · 13/10/2020 11:56

You're right OP.

As a form tutor I have a few conversations like this with students and I tell them it's a life exercise in how to challenge things appropriately because it won't be the first or last time in life where either:

someone has been an arse or done something wrong
they are the one affected by a unfair, unforseen circumstances
there's a substantial issue of injustice

I always tell them they have a choice in how they respond to those situations. Naturally, it comes as a surprise to teenagers that having a strop and refusing to work in a totally unrelated situation isn't going to give them the outcome they want.

LolaSmiles · 13/10/2020 11:58

BTW, I'm not saying your DD is having a strop. I was speaking generally, for example 'I'll not work in my Maths assessment and barely attempt the paper because I was given a detention in German that I don't agree with'.

Original poster

foxesandsquirrels · 13/10/2020 13:05

Oh she is most definitely having a strop haha I think it's only a natural reaction but she's not really had many instances where she can have this reaction in a safe space which I think is a really important lesson to learn.

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MotherOfCrocodiles · 13/10/2020 16:59

I don't think you should tell her you support the school in such a situation. Tell her it's bollocks but you have tried all routes available to you and can't get it changed.

Didlum · 13/10/2020 17:15

My dcs' school isn't shy about giving detentions when warranted but i think they are quite fair about lateness. If they are late twice in a week they get a lunchtime detention (might have changed since covid) but if it is due to a school bus that only runs once before school they show their bus ticket and it doesn't count towards a detention.

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