Confused about how many GCSEs are required - can someone explain please?

[Notcontent]

Dd has just started year 10. I have to confess that even though I am very involved in her education, I am still a bit confused about GCSEs - in particular, about why some people do less and some more, and why it matters...

My excuse is that I didn’t go to school in the U.K. - it was a very different system and everyone did the same number of subjects.

There seems to be a lot of variation. At my dd’s school everyone does 10, although it is possible to do one extra one. On another thread, someone mentioned a school where everyone does 7. What difference does it make?

It depends on whether you're counting the compulsory ones or not - which are Maths English and, I think, Science. But Science can be single, double or triple, depending on the ability of the student. And English is split into Language and Literature.

Some schools make other subjects compulsory, eg a language, Hisotry or Geography, RE.

So most students don't have a lot of choice over how many they do, it depends on how the school does them and counts them. A few very able students may do one extra, or possibly that happens more in private schools.

The more you do (and pass), the more qualifications you have and the more options post-16!

Hi, yes, I am counting the compulsory ones. But I just wonder why some schools are so keen for students to do so many. Does it make the school look good?

Most schools allow weaker students to do fewer, and very able students to do more! Schools are measured on the results of the best 6 plus Eng and Maths (progress 8). There is no benefit to the school if a kid does more, other than bragging rights, but schools should stretch able kids so may offer extra subjects such as Latin, or an extra language. Kids who speak another language in their home may also take an additional GCSE in their home language.

Ds was at a state comprehensive, outstanding and has been for years with a high number of GCSEs in English and maths and an above average Progress 8 score (how much each student has achieved above where they thought they would when they started secondary in terms of actual grades in GCSEs).

Ds did 9 GCSEs, English lit, English lang, maths, combined science where you cover all 3 sciences but achieve 2 grades rather than individual grades for chemistry/biology/physics and then 4 option choices including a language and a humanity such as history, geography or Ethics, Religion and Philosophy.

In total Ds sat 22 written exams and 2 oral exams, one for English lang and one language exam. Most children sit 9 GCSEs. This infographic from .gov website shows you grades and how many children sat them etc.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/826795/GCSE_infographic_17__1_.pdf

Ok thanks everyone.

For context, my dd is quite able and I very much support doing a wide range of subjects for the sake of gaining a broad education - but I guess I just personally think that with the pressures of being examined in each of these subjects, 9 or 10 is too many. But maybe the problem is with the format of GCSEs, rather than the number of subjects per se,

I think most pupils take 9 or 10 subjects. Schools usually only allow them to drop to 7 or 8 if they are less able.

DD took hers 4 years ago when it was usual to take 10 subjects.

A rounded education at this age is important and keeps options open for post 16 qualifications. A lot of countries think we specialise too early at A level where usually 3 are taken. Although, the most able students take 4

Most schools do 10 or so. There are 2 in English, 3 Sciences (sometimes 2), Maths. So that is 6. Lots of places also make everyone do RE as it has to be taught by law until 16. That makes 7. So doing 10 just gives 3 subject choices out of everything else: History, Geography, various Arts, Drama, Technical subjects, Music and other subjects.
State schools rarely do less than 9 (except for those needing extra support).
Some private schools (Bedales) do fewer but have their own ways of marking achievement across the broader curriculum.

It's not true that the more you do the better. You really only need 5. Maths, English (2) and science (2).
A Levels have become much harder so it's not uncommon for sixth forms to request at least a 7 in the subject they want to study. However, maths and English at grade 4 is enough for most courses aside from A Levels. And yes, contrary to popular belief those kids can also go to uni.

Of course there's a benefit to doing more, and not just 'bragging rights' - you get to study those subjects for longer and maintain a breadth of education. I find it depressing that the focus on MN education threads is so often about what you 'need' to do - to get onto an A level course, to get into university, to get a particular job. Yes, these are all important, but so is education for the purposes of education - different subjects teach you different skills and different ways of looking at the world. Languages, humanities etc all have huge value. Obviously that breadth has to be balanced against a pupil's academic ability and their capacity to cope with a larger number of exams, in deciding what's the right number of GCSEs for that individual.

Most schools do 8 to fit with progress 8.

There will obviously be schools that do more for various reasons.

Not relevant to you, OP, but in Scotland it’s decided by the individual Councils how many subjects can be studied at that level. In my county it’s only 6 subjects.

@Tamingofthehamster

Not relevant to you, OP, but in Scotland it’s decided by the individual Councils how many subjects can be studied at that level. In my county it’s only 6 subjects.

How odd. Why is this? This isn't exactly a level playing field when applying to university.

Our school does 9.5 as standard (0.5 is a short course RE)
Triple science pupils do 10.5
DD started at 9 (was doing full course RE) dropped to 8 just before lockdown and now will take 4 if we're lucky.

How many do you need, depends on your aspirations.

If you are aiming for an academic university course, most pupils will have a bare minimum of 8.
Selective 6th forms may well have a minimum requirement of 8 with a high average grade.
Non selective 6th forms for A levels will probably require 5 (inc Eng & maths)
For BTECs you'll need 4 or 5 passes for Level 3, but less for Level 2.

So for academic entry to next level, 8 is probably the most that will ever be asked. But doing more gives scope for a screw up in 1, and gives wider education, and more options still available at A level.

I have read on here many time in the past that some universities look at your best 8 grades. Therefore 9 was considered a good number so you had the change to "fluff" one on the day. I remember being relieved to read that as DDs school do 9 (can do 1 more if FM, RE or music).
It turned out to be the perfect number for her as she got to drops the subjects she didn't enjoy and was never going to take further whilst still keeping a broad range (eng x 2, maths, triple science, PE, History, Spanish).
As it turned out she didnt' get to take her exams (Covid) but we had seen her timetable with 20+ exams, nicely spread out, another 1 or 2 subjects would have been another 4-6 exams!

The problem these days is that 20 exams just can't be 'nicely spread out' over 4 or 5 weeks, you are looking at one most days. For less able pupils or those with slower processing / those who get extra time that is a tremendous load.

DD1 did GCSEs at the end of the old system, she had 13 exams (& loads of controlled assessments). DD2 should have had 20 with full load (plus drama & food practicals & CA). It's a hell of a lot.

The other "problem" in my opinion is that if you are good at/enjoy sciences, you can do a smaller number of GCSEs more easily as they are part of the standard subjects.

If you enjoy/are good at humanities or languages and less good at sciences then you can't easily cut down to a small number of subjects while still doing the ones you like. DD ended up with 9 though had started with 10. She had to do 5 compulsory (English x 2, maths and science) and then did the 3 humanities and a language. Her worst results were in double science so if she had dropped two humanities her "best 8" grades would have been worse iyswim.

Ginfordinner - I think it’s because they think the kids will get better grades if they’re doing less subjects at once. Universities don’t seem to be an issue as far as I know, as they go on Higher grades which are taken a year earlier than A-levels, so most dc already know their grades at the application stage.

It's not true that the more you do the better. You really only need 5

No. You need the 5 core you listed, plus another three. That's the minimum if you're hoping for uni realistically.

@GU24Mum it does feel like the system favours the scientists! For ds and dd we knew by year 9 that they were humanities-focused and weren't likely to do sciences or Maths for A Level (although ds is only year 10 so could surprise us). I wanted them to have enough options for A Level - so for example, dd took both History and Geography as they were her favourite subjects and possible A Level options, which would have been ruled out if she'd not done the GCSEs.

Dd started with 10 and was able to drop one at the beginning of year 11. That was definitely enough for her; she's a slow thorough worker who has a tendency to feel overwhelmed. At ds' school they still do 11 if they're in the triple science sets and 10 otherwise. I think it's too many. We've already made noises that we want him to do double science (with his consent of course) because he's unlikely to do Science A Levels and 11 subjects is just too many to revise - and too many exams.

@titchy, universities don't ask for eight or even five GCSEs, just Cs in Maths and English (and sometimes Science depending on the course).

@titchy this is really not true at all. The only reason you'd need those extra 3 is to get onto a levels in those subjects. There are plenty of other routes into university that are not a levels.
I think the biggest let down in this country is it's careers education. It fails so many kids a year and has done so for a very long time.

8 is a standard number that is expected (not just GCSEs, GCSE equivalents such as BTEC would also be ok). Most schools do 9 or 10. DS studied 11, which was far too many and meant 25 individual exams. (though it does mean he can quietly ignore the subject he failed as he still has 10 passes!)

I do agree that too many subjects (= many exams) is not helpful.

DS2 did GCSEs last year and wow! exams are packed in. One fellow student had 10 exams in the first week, due to combination of subjects.

SO at my DCs' school, you do 9, or 10 if you do triple science (more able students). Some schools have triple as an option so the number won't vary there.

DD and DS2 both did 10; DS1 did double and also dropped an option so he has 8 GCSEs, which was certainly plenty of work for him.

But I agree, the issue can be too early narrowing, especially if your interests do not lie in the direction of compulsory subjects. A local and well regarded school offers 8 (9 with triple) and insists that most students take French (the only MFL) and either history or geography. In practice this leaves many with only one choice. What if you enjoyed PE, drama, DT, catering, art, music, computing, RE...tricky to do any of those at A level without doing the GCSE (well, RE maybe, but certainly not the others). At least the DCs' school gives two options so you have a bit more scope. Luckily mine enjoyed a) English and geography b) biology and maths! But I feel for those who would like to do A levels in music, art and DT - really not possible.

Dd is at a high achieving independent and she's doing 8. She's working at about a 6 or 7 in everything at the moment. She'll stay there for 6th form and do 3 A levels.

My son did 10 (middle of the road comp), he had the option of doing 11 (adding further maths) and lots of students did 9 (combined science which counts as 2 GCSE’s rather than 3 separate sciences). When I did mine (a long long time ago) I did 8. Between 8-10 is probably the average.