intl family moving back to the UK, independent or state secondary??

[linwil]

Tldr; moving back to the UK after four years abroad, not sure whether to choose private or state secondary for DD going into Year 7.

Hello, I'd love advice from mums who are familiar with independent vs state secondary schools as I'm at a bit of a loss in our decision making. We're an international family who have lived in the UK before, at the time with primary aged children. After four years abroad we're moving back to the UK. We're very excited as we've really missed where we lived before.

My eldest is now 11 and going into Year 7. There's a good private school in the area who still have a few places for in-year entry, DD is academically very strong and as DH's new job offers money for private, it's not an issue of cost for us (with 3 kids we could've maybe afforded to put 1 or 2 in private on our own dime but definitely not 3). However I have some reservations regarding private schools in general and as with the current Covid risk we cannot visit the school beforehand I'd love to get your opinion.

My main worry is that DD won't fit in well and will not be happy at the school and while I think quality of education is very important I also believe that the number one important thing is that they like their school as otherwise they will not do well in it academically, either.

DD currently attends an American international school so quite a different (and I think more laid-back) flavour. As a family we don't drive expensive cars or take exotic vacations and while we could afford it the kids don't have iphones or ipads or anything like that as I don't believe they need them. DD herself is of similar mind.

Our main alternative is a good, though definitely not great, state school in the same area. Almost all of her old friends from primary, from before we moved abroad, are in this school, but at the moment Y7 is completely full so we'd have to join the waitlist if she wanted to go there. There is one other good state school, a little outside the area we'll be in but still fairly close, that does have places. Don't know much about this school though nor anyone who goes to it.

Part of me feels she'd probably get the better education at the private school and everything it has to offer may be amazing for her. Not to mention it seems kind of silly to leave the money DH's new job offers for private on the table and not use it? But at the same time I really worry the private school will be the kind of environment where she'll be the odd one out. DD herself is of two minds. She really likes some of the things on offer at the private school but I get the feeling that if there was a place at the state school right now she'd pick that one.

Our younger two children will be going to a state primary as the prep for the private school is full in their years. No idea yet where we'd put them after that though with our middle daughter going into Year 5 that's another decision coming up in a year.

This got ridiculously long! Would love your opinions / advice / ideas etc. if you've read this far! Massive thanks from across the Channel!

I think there are 2 questions here - one is where does the American curriculum put her in relation to the English system. Switching systems can be hard and the best fit for that might not be the one that would be best fit if she had been educated in the English system. The other is when will you be resident in the UK to apply - are you looking for September next year or an in year transfer? If it’s the latter (and you said that year 7 is currently full so I suspect it is) then you probably have very little choice in reality.

It's impossible to advise you on the basis of the info in your op because there are good and terrible private schools and there are good and terrible state schools.

I would be suspicious of any school that had vacancies this early in y7, state or private. Unless it is in an area where the population has changed over the years such that there are generally more school places than kids. But generally any decent school is going to be full at the start of y7 and then may get some vacancies as the ebb and flow of people making decisions to move to different jobs etc means that places do come free.

My DC at a private school have no cool technology, no holidays to boast about and no designer fashion wear, and are dropped off at school in a very elderly and uncool car, and they are not remotely out of place, all this is entirely normal. The majority of the families are fairly normal with not particularly lavish lifestyles, who are stretching their budgets to meet the fees so don't have the spare cash for spending on luxuries.

Same experience as Kiho. I think the being the odd child because of perceived lack of wealth is a myth. We have a 15 year old car, kids have quite old iphones and wear clothes from regular shops. Infact, they meet with friends at Primark. There must be some super wealthy (if house and cars give an indication) but most people are just regular folks. Mine have never felt out of place not even when DC1 visited a friend whose house is perhaps 5 or 6 times ours. DC1's friend is as "normal" as the rest of them. I wouldn't worry about being odd in that sense.

It's tricky deciding on schools when you haven't seen them. If your DD is academic, she should be fine in the UK system. My sister is an international family like yours with kids in AIS abroad. We sometimes compare what kids are doing as they are same age because she worries about when they return.

I wonder if your daughter prefers the state school because she will already know people there. However, friendships move on between primary and secondary.

Assuming the independent school is a good one, I'd take it as it's "free" to you but I'd also be wary of a school that has spaces now. But then, they having spaces might be due to covid though most good schools still have a waiting list.

Good luck with the decision.

My main worry is that DD won't fit in well and will not be happy at the school

Surely you would have this worry starting at any school?

Private, for so many reasons but currently due to the provision to move to agile learning at the drop of a hat.

There is a huge spectrum of private schools, those that are super academic and selective, to those that allow you to do well under your own steam. All I’ve seen appear to offer amazing extra-curricular activities and encourage children to expand their abilities beyond academics which is where I think the biggest value lies.

Which area are you moving to? Perhaps someone will have knowledge of schools here and give some inside info?

I have to say my children’s schools have become extremely popular since the pandemic began. This is due to a combination of some other independents being unable to continue in the area and parents wanting to ensure learning continues if another lockdown happens (hi tomorrow!).

Also no you wouldn’t be out of place. We are a very normal family and most of the families are. We’re quite rural so there are a few with big land and manors but they are not stuck up, a minute amount of people afford the fees easily so I’d take advantage of what you have been given. I’d also look at other pre-preps for your junior children, it’ll still put them in a good position to go to your preferred senior.

I do have to agree that it absolutely depends on which private and which state ..if both had places. My inclination would always be state though. My parents moved country to country every couple of years and I went to both U.K. (private) and international schools. If she was able to get a place at the state that would be my choice as a parent as moving countries into a new school, leaving old friends behind is a big shock to the system and familiar faces (even if you don’t stay friends in the long run) helps. However if there isn’t a place I think you have to go with the private really. You never know, in the time that it takes to move a place may come up in the state school (although I appreciate you might have paid a deposit for the private at this point!).

Choose private, 100%, esp if your DH work is going to pay.

My experience of private is that class sizes are the number one reason for parents choosing it. The teaching won't necessarily be better but the more focused attention on the individual, better opportunities, clubs, sports, music are why most people go private.

Having a non-flashy car and not going skiing would put you in the majority of parents that I've met at private schools.

:-) I’m not going to disagree with @GetRid’S comment about class sizes as she is completely correct - nor do I want to start a state v private argument but the reality is that opportunities, clubs, sports and music offers might be just as decent at a state school or potentially even better. Admittedly we live in a well heeled area but DDs state school has a very strong music and drama club offering (6 choirs, individual instrument and singing coaching, in house music studio, in house cinema, LAMDA classes, script writing, drama clubs and a yearly production so professional it had the school featured in Tatler). On the sports side there is even a riding club. Their offering on the Creative Arts side is also very impressive The sports, music & arts line is often brought up by private school mums as why the private sector is superior but again, it’s going to depend on the school and isn’t a given!

Also (apologies all, I’m obviously on some kind of roll!), in terms of career opportunities in an age where Diversity and Inclusion are becoming increasingly more important, going to a private school might not be a given plus factor on the career front. I work in resourcing and my colleague and I are working on two big projects at the moment, one for a very well known Financial Services organisation and the other for a large Ad agency - both wanting to up diversity in their workplaces away from the white, largely privately educated people who make up the majority of their workforce. While we are continuing to put forward people based on their ability and experience for both projects (ethically it’s our job) there has been a definite preferencing of candidates by the clients towards people who don’t come from their traditional intake.

I seem to be going slightly off thread here but it’s something to think about in terms of what in a modern workplace today will give DC more opportunities!

You probably don't want to say, but it might help if you named the schools.

Thanks all very much for your detailed replies, it's really helpful!

RoseAndRose, you make a good point and yes I do always worry whether she'll fit in and be happy at any school. As a military family we've had to move a lot and though she is quite shy by nature she has become adept at making new friends mainly because she's had no choice but to do so. There was one school where after the first two years she grew very unhappy in her year, largely due to it being very clique-y and gossipy amongst the girls, who had all gone to school together since pre-school. DD has been so much happier in her most recent school. This time around we hope to be able to settle down and not have to move again and I'd so like to get it right from day 1 but of course we could always move her again if need be.

I understand my post was quite vague as to the area and that schools both state and private are all very different. The area we'll be in is very rural and aside from the private prep, which is full in my younger kids' years, there's nothing very good available at primary level so that is another thing I'm trying to figure out. Going out of catchment will mean a lot of driving.

My eldest loves learning and based on her previous schooling and grades the private school does not think there will be any issues with her going into Year 7, even if now she's in 6th grade based on her age in the American system. I suppose it depends on the entrance examination as well.

It's very good to hear most people whose children attend private schools are very average when it comes to extras - i.e. ski trips, extra holidays and flashy cars etc. are not at all the norm. I did not know that and it's very good to know as it sounds like in that sense DD would never be considered "less" for not having all that. My worry stems from the fact that my best friend's kids are in a private school outside the area we'll be in and she has said there is some snobbiness at their school and she has heard the school we have in mind is worse in that respect. But of course maybe that wouldn't be our experience at all - I suppose it's a matter of just trying it perhaps.

We did find another state secondary, this one rated outstanding ofsted, a little outside the area we'll be in. They're full in every year but still have a place or two left in Year 7. I wonder if perhaps DD's birth year in that area has not been as full? DD seems excited about this school as well, though we'd have to move her for A levels as it only goes to 16. And again it would mean a lot of driving, so some more food for thought there.

Anyway I really appreciate all your thoughts! We have a little time left in which to make a decision and I will keep busy thinking about it for now!

I don't know if it's relevant, but if you're possibly going to move again, is it worth looking at whether boarding is an option if needed?