A-level choices - soft options vs hard options...

[UsernameNeverAvailable]

DD is choosing her A-levels and is hoping to study law at university.

She’s thinking of English (language & lit), Geography and classical civilisations. Would these work well together and would the latter be too much of a ‘soft’ option? She doesn’t want to do sciences, maths or history....

She said politics was very interesting as they study British and US law, visit law courts and learn to debate. She can’t see how it wouldn’t be useful. I’m worried!!

DD is barrister and took Drama GCSE. Having said that, only 1 girl did not get an A* in her cohort at school. Around 24 took drama GCSE. They also had drama scholars so it was taken seriously. One out of 11 GCSEs is neither here nor there. Actually it did make a difference to her confidence and ability to speak clearly. Her Inn ran a course with a lecturer from RADA because so many aspiring barristers feel they need coaching on speaking clearly and persuasively! She did the course but found herself better at speaking than many others.

I think Drama is not a doss at A level. I know an English Lit grad from Cambridge with it. If taught well, it challenges and is worthwhile. However, if your other intellectual capabilities are lacking, you won't get too far with Law anyway. I would not recommend it particularly as one of three A levels for Law but drama clubs are useful. I also think adding in a language shows depth of learning too.

she wants to drop geography which is a facilitating subject!!!

If she has no interest in doing geography at degree level that doesn't matter.

@UsernameNeverAvailable

She said politics was very interesting as they study British and US law, visit law courts and learn to debate. She can’t see how it wouldn’t be useful. I’m worried!!

Why? Eng lit, class civ and politics are a good combination.

I also think politics would be fine as a choice.

Politics A level isn’t formal debate. Joining a debating society helps if school has one. Or MUN. DD did do Politics A level. She found it a bit dry. Reasonable foundation for constitutional law I think. The skills from doing this A level are worthwhile though if you look at the spec.

Has she looked on the Law Portal for their take on A levels? Sure, none are required but a good old style spread of two , preferably three facilitating subjects will help her application. She should aim for AAA but given she's strong in maths I'd swap classical civs or politics and govt for Maths. Maths is so useful for so many subjects, especially if she changes her plans or decides she'd rather go for postgraduate entry into Law instead. Ditto Spanish if she's likely to do well.
Why is she reluctant to consider Maths? I know she's young but Law is a graft and she sounds a little bit like she thinks she can take easiest options and nobody will notice. Law is competitive and people will and they do.

I think you should let her make her own kind up and support her with her choices. I know several people high up in law who went in completely different directions for A levels - they are not the most important factor in the long run. She should consider subjects she will enjoy as well as those that are useful.

I would not at all recommend Maths A-level for someone who doesn't want to do it. She could consider Economics. It's a social science at A-level and she'd find the numeracy element a breeze with a 9 in Maths.

Employers will look at A levels though. I think many like the traditional ones but Eng Lit, Politics and Classical Civilisation are all essay ones and that’s fine. I would also say Spanish is a good subject too. It will depend on where DD applies and she might have to do LNAT too. There is always the option of doing another degree then converting to Law. Just make sure it’s an academic one.

I did English Lit, History and Classical Civilisation in 2013. Got into a Top 10 and now have an MA degree.

Wouldn't say that arts are 'soft' tbh, just different skill sets. I LOVED classics and it set me up very well for some of my Uni modules (I did Literature).

Don't make her do maths if she doesn't want to or Spanish. My mum forced me to do Chemistry and... I bombed it. Got all As in the subjects I wanted to do.

The DD isn’t considering History, CorrianderLord. I think history is the gold standard for law and the combination you did would be very good. However if dd doesn’t want to do history it’s a case of doing what you are best at and interested in. You also did two “facilitating” subjects. However the subjects the DD has chosen are academic and therefore fine but history would be better instead of politics or class civ.

@UsernameNeverAvailable

She said politics was very interesting as they study British and US law, visit law courts and learn to debate. She can’t see how it wouldn’t be useful. I’m worried!!

I have a child in year 13 studying Politics.

I think she has a slightly distorted view of what A level politics involves so maybe encourage her to read the spec.

It involves a lot of understanding of the constitution (uk and either world or us depending on spec). Detailed understanding of the political make up of the above.

Understanding of key political thinkers (historical) and branches of politics.

3 x 2 hour exams all long essay writing (30 & 24 mark type questions no short answers).

Essentially very similar to history.

Debating irrelevant except in the ability to craft a balanced essay examining all sides of arguments. I think she is rather rose tinted if she thinks it’s all visiting law courts and debating.

A level Geography (child also studying this) is a big step up from gcse (my child’s comment - they got a 9 at gcse). Massive content plus a big NEA (30% of A level) - if she’s not really into geography don’t push her towards it.

I think schools sell Politics as being exciting and relevant because dc will be debating and able to discuss the politics of the day. Unfortunately that’s viewing it through rose tinted spectacles and a sales pitch! As I said above, DD found it dry and that was years ago. As DC don’t take it at GCSE (or indeed Classical Civilisation normally) it’s a leap into the unknown.

She’s really keen on Durham or Bristol so will need excellent grades... Just concerned that although they say they’ve done away with facilitating subjects, she may be competing with applicants who have three ‘facilitating’ A-levels and she has English lit, Classic civ and politics...
She’s good at maths but doesn’t really enjoy it much. I think she should take Spanish but She won’t hear of it!

Dd is applying to Bristol with english lit, class.civ and rs (predicted AAA). She's not expecting not to get an offer!

3 facilitating subjects are not necessary. Two are maybe better than one. They have not done away with the subjects that are better prep for certain degrees. There are still good subjects and less good subjects and a few in the middle.

She needs high grades. One subject won’t make all the difference because she has chosen decent A levels. English lit is good. History would be better than one of the others but it’s not a deal breaker. I think Bristol and Durham require LNAT and not passing that would be the deal breaker!

She's not applying for law though, missed that sorry.

They have stopped publishing and endorsing facilitating subjects. But they've not 'done away' with them, in the sense that their original purpose still exists. It is a way to let people know which subjects will keep your options open. The sort of thing that families who have sent DC to university for generations know almost by instinct. A kind of levelling up.

Pupils select A levels when still in y11. They may not be so sure what they want to do at university and may not be much attuned to how far their choices now will shape what they will realistically be able to do next. The list was an attempt to short cut the need to trawl through both formal offers and actual subjects/grades of course entrants to establish the most useful subjects for yourself.

It was never intended to be prescriptive - but because it was widely over interpreted in that way it was withdrawn. Still available online for those who want to consult it.

It was never meant to be any comment at all on how 'hard' the subject is, nor how satisfying to study. And of course, the well being of your teen matters, and in general people are happier with the subjects they like and want to do, not always just what they think they should.

Unfortunately there is lots of evidence (Sutton Trust for one) that DC from families who haven’t sent DC to university ever, are more likely to choose the “wrong” A levels! Thereby diminishing the likelihood of DC getting to a top university. Choosing Law for a Law degree would be a good example of not choosing wisely. Especially if the other two subjects were not considered academic either. If no one ever tells you that History, English Lit, Maths, MFL and other essay subjects mixed in are better prep for Law, DC make choices that are less likely to get into the best universities. That has a huge bearing on future job prospects.

If schools send out the message that the list from Cambridge university (that I posted on page 1) is “done away with” it’s a huge disservice to less well informed pupils and parents. The very DC who need the best information. At the very least, MN should give the best info when asked.

Dds friend did Law, Drama and History and has offers to study Law from Bristol, Nottingham and Edinburgh.

Sometimes Mumsnet is a bit out of date.

It's true about drama and Law. A few yers ago someone did a freedom of information request about the subjects taken by successful applicants to various RG university courses and for Law a really high percentage of those with Drama A level were accepted.

Facilitating subjects are those subjects which gave access to the widest range of degree courses. It's meant to be a guide for those who don't know what they want to do or want to keep as many options as possible open.