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Original poster

Maths A Level - with a Grade 7 at GCSE?

47 replies

bigdealdaisy · 01/10/2020 10:19

Discussion with DS's maths teacher last night re GCSE and potential to do A level maths. DS in the third set of a four set cohort and is currently predicted a 7 and his teahcer feels an 8 is well within his grasp if he continues as he is. DS was considering maths A-level and put this to his teacher who said 'not with a grade 7 and not from set three UNLESS you really nail algebra AND you get a grade 8'.

I'm obviously paraphrasing and the teacher is nothing but encouraging. DS does like maths and he definitely has some aptitude for it but he is able rather than a high flyer plus immature relative to his peer group although he has has a good start to Year 11.

Any thoughts? From teachers or parents? Or students?

OP posts:
TeenPlusTwenties · 01/10/2020 10:27

Grammar / selective school?

Grade 7 is the requirement for the 6th form colleges round here for maths A level, with 8 to do further maths. I bet you could find somewhere else to take him with a 7. (An 8 strikes me as just protecting fabulous A level results for the school).

Algebra is important though. If he struggles to 'get' algebra then maths A level might not be for him.

RedskyAtnight · 01/10/2020 11:30

That sounds like standard requirements for a selective school.

Outcomes at A Level for maths are strongly linked to results at GCSE (if you search, you can probably find the graph on other threads). But I'd say a high 7 would certainly be good enough!

(DS's "inclusive" school will take students with a 6 to do A Level maths. Yes, these children tend not to get the top grades, but not everyone is aspiring to get top grades).

Comefromaway · 01/10/2020 16:01

I'm guessing it's a selective school as Set 3 of a noral school would not be on target for a 7/8

What are his ambitions post A levels? If he is hoping to appluy for places where he needs to nail A & A* A levels then maybe he should re-consider maths. But if a B will do perfectly fine (and its still a good A level grade) then why on earth not if that's what he wants to do. Most 6th forms in my area ask for a 7 at GCSE to take A level.

NotDonna · 01/10/2020 16:34

I agree with pp that if he needs/wants A*/A at A level then yes, he’ll need a good grasp of algebra and be in line for 7/8 in GCSE and still work hard. Ive definitely read that some kids may get a 7 due to general maths ability but their algebra isn’t great. Apparently the algebra really matters.

Original poster
bigdealdaisy · 01/10/2020 17:38

That’s all; it’s helpful to read your thoughts on this. School is fee paying but not academically selective . Set 3 is a bit of a curve ball as he often scores as high as top of set 2 and was asked to move up in October of year 10 but said no as he likes the pace of set 3 (! Maybe that’s all we need to know about his attitude!). Obviously set 1 are doing additional maths so a very well placed for maths/further maths a-levels.
I was pleased when he muted the idea of maths A-level as his other subjects are likely to be creative ones. Plus DH and I are maths grads so we obv think it’s the best subject in the world.

He has no idea re the future so i’m less worried about A-level grade than the experience he would have - I found A-level maths hard after GCSE. Off to see the Sixth Form college next week so will be good to see what they offer and what their GCSE requirements are.

OP posts:
JoanApple · 01/10/2020 17:40

In state school a 6 is normally enough but a 7 is preferred.

CamelotSweetheart · 01/10/2020 17:49

My bog-standard comp asks for an 8 or 9 at GCSE (but they might let you take it with a 7 if you showed exceptional promise but just had a bad day on the exam).

TeenPlusTwenties · 01/10/2020 17:52

Our local 6th form college, gigantic ~2000 per year group (4000 in all).
www.psc.ac.uk/courses/2021/maths/ requires a 7.

Conversely, English Lit www.psc.ac.uk/courses/2021/literature/ only requires their basic entry which is 5 GCSEs at grade 4, incl English & Maths.

BadlydoneHelen · 01/10/2020 17:57

I think from what I've read on here that if you worked hard and ended up with a 7 at GCSE you'll struggle with A level whereas if the 7/8 came naturally you'll be ok

DonaldTrumpsChopper · 01/10/2020 18:44

My ds is doing a level maths. He is at a part selective state school, good but not outstanding results.

They require a 7 at GCSE, and even then will advise against if your algebra isn't up to it.

School has 3 a level sets, the top set is for those also taking further maths, 2nd is for those with 8s and 9s at gcse, and 3rd is for those with a 7, or an 8 but not strong at algebra. He says set 3 are struggling already.

Original poster
bigdealdaisy · 01/10/2020 18:53

Sorry about my SPaG.... just reading my posts again and rather embarrassed.....

@DonaldTrumpsChopper sounds exactly the point his teacher was making

OP posts:
elkiedee · 01/10/2020 19:00

Does he want to stay at the same school? Do you want him to? What other subjects does he want to do and does the school offer them? I was going to ask about whether you've looked at local sixth form colleges as well (they might offer different/varied creative options too) and then reread your 2nd post and realised that you're planning to do just that already.

I would think though that A level will be a jump in pace as well as complexity, and that he might need to step up pace. The teacher might be responding based on your son's reluctance to move sets and be pushed a bit harder, rather than on his ability.

GU24Mum · 01/10/2020 19:07

I think maths is one of those subjects where you can struggle if you didn't do really well at GCSE - it's not like history for example where you are likely to understand the input but just not produce such a good answer.

My DC got a 7 (and apparently had an 8 in her) - is really reliable at calculations and strong at algebra though dreadful at anything to do with shapes. The difference might be that she always felt on the back foot with maths and that she wasn't great at it. With her grades/ability, to be honest, I would have been very wary of her taking A Level. I guess if your DS doesn't feel like that and enjoys it then that's a better place to start but still a bit risky if he wants/needs a goodish result.

Guymere · 01/10/2020 19:08

DN got a 9 at gcse maths and that became an A at A level in a fairly good comp. A 7 might be more B territory at best. Could he do better at another subject? What does he want to do with the maths?

YayoKireZukusi · 01/10/2020 19:17

With a 7 at GCSE the chances are that would work through to a grade C at A-level. Some schools will be perfectly happy to see a C at A-level among their A-level results, other schools will see a C as tantamount to a failure, so it depends on the school. Equally, many A-level candidates and many University admissions criteria consider C to be a perfectly reasonable achievement and others won't, so it's just a matter of perspective. Is he definitely wanting to stay at that school for A-level? Are there other reasonable schools he could consider moving to where they have a more flexible attitude? Is he likely to aim for the kind of University that tends to make AAB offers (in which case he might want to choose a different subject) or is he more likely to want to go somewhere where the typical offer is BCC.

There is no shame in not being in the academic elite. It's better to do a subject you genuinely enjoy and want to improve at, even if you might not score the highest, than to do a subject where you can get the results but won't enjoy so much.

noblegiraffe · 01/10/2020 19:31

The most common A-level maths outcome with a grade 7 is a D.

I agree with the teacher that he needs to nail algebra, that will be the key to successfully transitioning to A-level. He needs to up his game now if that is his plan as trying to catch up with the others who did better at GCSE once the course is started is quite intense.

Maths A Level - with a Grade 7 at GCSE?
KetoPenguin · 01/10/2020 19:39

My dd is doing maths A level and she got a 6 in GCSE. The school were happy for her to do the A
level. She loves maths and she's a hard worker so she will go for it.

NotDonna · 01/10/2020 21:30

I’ve seen you post that chart before @noblegiraffe and it is quite shocking. A 7 at GCSE is a fine result and regular folk like me would never think that it commonly equates to a D in maths. Do you know if there’s a similar chart for chemistry please?

TheFallenMadonna · 01/10/2020 21:45

That table does show the most common outcome is a D, but also that half of the 7s that took the exams got a C or above. Is it one board noblegiraffe- the numbers are lower than I thought. Not that I would expect wildly different results of course.

Mystraightenersarebroken · 01/10/2020 21:51

My DS got a 9 at GCSE without working very hard at all but really struggled at A level. In the end he took an AS and achieved a C but, to be fair, he did next to no work in the second year. I guess it's all a bit of a gamble - his head teacher (who was a maths teacher) said everyone has their ceiling in maths, it just depends when you hit it!

noblegiraffe · 01/10/2020 21:56

Edexcel, Fallen - the biggest exam board for maths A-level.

I think we need to be careful saying things like 'half the 7s got a C or above' because that is all that will be heard. 'Just about half got a D or below so you should expect to put a LOT of work in to get those grades' needs to be the clear message.

NotDonna I don't know if there are similar tables for other subjects, probably not, because maths is the subject where A-level outcome is most heavily correlated with GCSE outcome.

HattonsMustard · 01/10/2020 22:33

I am not a teacher, just a parent and maybe noble can wade in on this but we are literally just in to October. Surely if a child wants to improve their maths grade they have time to work at it for GCSE at least.

There are loads of videos on YouTube about algebra so he can look at that and start to improve his understanding of it. If I am reading the table correctly then Edexcel GCSE higher paper weighting has algebra as the highest with 27% - 33% whereas Geometry and Measures is 17% - 23%. This is why the algebra comprehension is so important.

here is the document

NotDonna · 02/10/2020 06:39

If I am reading the table correctly then Edexcel GCSE higher paper weighting has algebra as the highest with 27% - 33% whereas Geometry and Measures is 17% - 23%. This is why the algebra comprehension is so important.
Conversely, @HattonsMustard does that mean 67% - 73% could be gained as GCSE with zero algebra thus getting a great result at that level? Thus believing they’re a decent mathematician but would then struggle with the amount of algebra at A level, if that makes sense. Being good at algebra is essential at A level. I think that’s what the op’s teacher & noble are highlighting.
I was interested to learn that it’s the most popular A level though, so there’s obviously a lot of kids giving it a go regardless, which can’t be a bad thing!

HattonsMustard · 02/10/2020 07:48

@NotDonna but surely that would mean you would have to get full marks on every question bar algebra to achieve that score.

Like I said I am a parent, not a teacher, I was showing that there is time to study outside the classroom to improve the child's algebra if he was struggling with concepts in class. The table above was meant to show how important algebra is on the exams.

I think it is helpful when teachers point out at this stage specifically what a child needs to work on. Ds1 is testament to being given a predicted grade (not maths) and smashing through that to achieve a 9 because of something his teacher said at Ds's last parents evening after his February mocks.

DadDadDad · 02/10/2020 12:28

Noble's table is very helpful, but I'd caution further - a form of survivorship bias: it only shows those with a 7 at GCSE who didn't give up. My concern for someone with a 7 is they will struggle and end up dropping it.

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