11+ delayed. Do I put grammars down as first and second choice?

[user1471530109]

This probably sounds like a really obvious question.
Dd is due to take the 11+ this year. I am realistic about her chances of getting a place at one of the local grammars. She is bright but has had a really tough couple of years and hasn't really made school work her priority. Suddenly she is more interested and the 11+ application came completely from her. She is keen but left it too late and honestly doesn't handle pressure well. I'd like to suggest she doesn't do the exam as I think she wouldn't cope in a grammar. But the fact she is so motivated, I don't want to discourage her and then make her resent the decision.

Anyway. I think more likely she will end up at the comp. This is an excellent school and oversubscribed. We fall under catchment and shouldn't have much of an issue (but are on the edge of the catchment). This is rural England btw. Not London or other city.

I am worried about putting the grammars down at choices 1 and 2 if it means it reduces her chances of getting in the comp if she doesn't get the pass grades for the 11+. We won't get the results for this until mid December. Way after the application deadline.

I've asked various people, including the schools and I get different answers! There is nothing on the county website about this despite pages of other 11+ information .

I know some of you are very knowledgeable on application details. Any advice?

Putting grammars down won't reduce the chance of being offered the comp.
Schools have to act on an 'equal preference' system.
The only time they look at your order of preference is if you qualify for more than one school.

Yes. I'm Warwickshire & we're having to do it this way (& have been given a 7th choice due to it). It's the way it was done when I took mine (& Dh too). Dc1 has 1st & 2nd choice as the 2 local GS then 4 local Academies for choices 3,4,5 & 6.

Essentially by doing it this way if the child doesn't get the qualifying mark for the GS the academy/comp choices get bumped up.

Our LA has said that this year only there will be the opportunity to amend choices up to a date sometime in December if your choices might change due to waiting for 11+ results. This wasn't on the website, but they said at a secondary transfer information meeting (on Zoom).

Worth checking if your LA is doing something similar.

It won’t affect your chances of getting in to your preferred comp as what happens is all applicants are sent out to all schools and the school says yes or no based on their criteria. They have no idea whether you put them first or last. You are then offered your highest choice of school that has a space for you. I hope that makes sense.

Don’t write her off though, DS also decided to do the test last minute and I thought his chances were pretty slim (I didn’t tell him that though!). He’s just started at his Grammar school and is so far doing very well.

Thank you! I did assume that would be the case but I've had some different advice and it made me second guess.

She literally decided the day of the deadline that she wanted me to enter her. I thought it was peer pressure but she's the only one from her school that's entered (tiny village school). I think if nothing else, it will give her practice of taking school exams as she's a bit of a worrier (understatement).

I'm a bit concerned that putting off the exam because of covid might have been the wrong decision now that cases are rising like they are! Who knows what will happen over the next 6 weeks .

Thanks again

Yes, I'm getting a bit twitchy about it happening again & poor dd is worrying over it too, she's put a lot of work in over the last couple of years & having the goal post moved at the last minute (even though we expected it) has really demoralised her. B'ham schools kept the September date but Warks moved it to November.

In my day we sat it in school, during school hours. I wish it was still this way atm!

Yes, I wondered if it would make sense to do it in their primary schools to keep bubbles together etc. But I expect there is the concern about it being invigilated appropriately (iyswim). I'd imagine unfortunately some primaries or preps have a lot riding on how many get into the grammars.

However, sending one invigilator to oversee the exam is surely safer? I can't see how the exams can go ahead as planned with the current forecast for covid.

I think it would be but I suppose it wouldn't be cost effective if only 1 or 2 children in a school were sitting it, lack of space to sit the exam, timetable issues etc. National offers day is 5th March (I think) so I'm presuming they'll have to sit it by late January /early February at the very latest.

Sending one invigilator might work in areas where the applicants are concentrated in a geographical area but I can’t see that working when children are drawn from a wide region or even nationally. Transmissions are increasing rapidly in the school/ college population. It must be a real challenge to sort this one out. But I digress. OP, you would get your catchment school if you are really in it and not just on the edge. I’d check previous statistics though. Have you looked into whether you can change your preferences after receiving the test results?

I haven't, thank you.

Our village is within the catchment. I say on the edge because the catchment is quite large compared to most and my village is the last village in that direction iyswim (the catchment in terms of miles in a straight line still makes my village much closer than the majority of the catchment.. it is not a circle). I actually work at the school so know that all kids from this village 'go' to the school as I am reminded daily. I also know that many come from the neighbouring villages that aren't officially in catchment but now the school is oversubscribed, I guess these numbers may dwindle.

You say 'can I change order of preference after getting results'. But if it's the case that if she doesn't pass the 11+, that choices 1 and 2 are void, wouldn't it bump up the comp in 3rd place to first place? If it doesn't, the risk of losing that place may be too great.

This is going to be a massive headache for the application department this year

Not all authorities are giving the option of changing. If you only get three preferences and you’re not keen on your catchment place you might want to try your luck with other schools. Why waste a preference if you have no chance of a grammar?

If you put the local comp down next it wont reduce her chances at all

We are having the same debate, there are 2 grammars then a very good comp, first choice if she d oesnt pass the Kent test... Mind you, I think I liked it better than the grammars actually but that's another debate altogether!
I'm worried that although we are within the last distance offered, by about a mile, that having the comp as 3rd choice will mean it's places are all gone to the people who have it as 1st...but it seems then that they almost ignore the grammar choices if they don't pass? So if DD didn't pass, they wouldn't send that application to the grammars, but to the other 4 school, then they'd say yes or no, and as it's then top of our list, we'd be OK as we would be offered..?

Hi Steg, it doesn’t work like that. The order of preference only matters for the family/child, so if your DD is eligible for your first choice under the school’s criteria she will get that. If not, they’ll look at your next preference. You will have first dibs on your catchment school than someone out of catchment, even if they put it first on their list. Hth.

Kent CC has some helpful worked examples here (p15, I think, but lots of other useful stuff on the way to it as well):
www.kent.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/17930/Secondary-admissions-booklet-all-areas.pdf

The 'first preference first' system of school allocation has been unlawful for well over a decade.

I advise and support parents doing school applications as part of my job.
We don't have grammars here (so less helpful, I do appreciate). But what I always say to parents is, don't think from top down, think from bottom up.
Where can you bare (bear???) to send your child/what can you logistically manage