Can someone explain ISEB to me?

[Stircrazyschoolmum]

Just that really.. a number of the indies are using ISEB this year due to Covid. I understand it’s online, multiple choice and covers English /maths/VR/NVR. But how in practice does this actually work? Is there paper to work out the maths on? Is it intuitive how to click on answers? What does adaptive mean in this context?!

We are at a state primary so it’s all gibberish.. it seems a good way to keep kids safe and reduce stress from multiple exams but if your DC has a bad day then all eggs in one basket?!?

NB: DD’s ISEB test takes place in a couple of weeks so it’s too late to learn new concepts now.
I think her scores in VR and English are good enough so we are focusing our efforts on NVR (working within the allocated time + some questions are pretty tricky even for me!!) and maths (mainly avoiding careless mistakes).

I hear you oceane there have been a few expletives in our household over folded bits of paper and top views of cubes!

I’m consoling myself that is we flunk it then it probably wasn’t meant to be and I’d hate her to go to a school where she’d struggle.

Lots of expletives here too! We got Atom yesterday for the trial period: DD is strong on maths, only just above average on everything else. I’m also consoling myself with the thought that I wouldn’t want her to be bumping along the bottom in a very selective school.

Struggling with the English too. DS goes to a prep school but has never heard of half the grammar terms. Doing well on the comprehension part but not on the grammar. So English scores very average. Surely most Year 6 pupils can't have covered all those grammar terms so not sure what they're basing their average on

@Stircrazyschoolmum @Oceane11plus I think the grammar is waaaaay too advanced. Both my DSs (who have sat ISEB previously) had a look and said there is nothing that complex in the actual ISEB. They both seemed to think that verbs, nouns, adjectives, adverbs, prepositions are enough and knowing how to use punctuation like capital letters, colons, semi colons, full stops etc. DD hasn’t covered any of the complicated stuff in prep school so I’m just ignoring it - and I can’t believe the schools will be interested in that stuff either (especially as they are moving to iseb to not disadvantage kids who have missed lots of schooling!)

Agree with all the comments about the Atom grammar being way too advanced. I think it is a ploy to make parents feel their kids are behind and therefore need to do Atom for longer.
Some of the maths is also way off the curriculum required for ISEB so we are leaving Atom aside and focus on more realistic paper tests.
I do think Atom should think a bit more about kids’ mental health rather than their own bottom line: in their year of all years, creating extra anxiety should really not be on.

I’m not sure I want to bother with Atom.

If you do the five day trial I assume you can opt out before they take the £49

We’ve done quite a few paper tests including for the schools he’s applying to.

Op, or anyone, how did you find Atom compared with past school papers etc

@MarshaBradyo In maths the main difference I have noticed is that past papers often include some longer questions, involving lateral thinking and testing innate mathematical ability, especially towards the end. Questions on Atom tend to be pretty short although there are also multi step problems. And of course Atom like ISEB is multiple choice.
If you have a limited budget and already have resources at home (past papers, books from various editors in all 4 subjects), I would be focusing on that, and a week before the actual exam, use Atom as a free trial so that your DC gets used to the format/working on a screen, the time pressure etc
My older DCs did not have atom when they sat the ISEB pre test or CEM assessments and did very well (I can guarantee that my DS would have failed pretty badly had the ISEB pre test been as grammar heavy as the Atom English mocks )

@SuiGeneris I fully agree. The more I think about it, the more I realise Atom have a “commercial” agenda. In hindsight I don’t regret it as my DD liked the novelty of practicing on a screen and their explanations are fairly comprehensive but it’s not a necessity and there are plenty of other great quality paper based resources out there.

Thanks Oceane that’s very helpful.

I signed up to another general resource when lockdown occurred and ended up not using it hugely and I found it too much, pushing content taking payment etc.

If they don’t automatically take £49 I’ll just do the trial.

I agree with the above. It’s main benefit is learning the timings for each paper and perhaps the hardest thing for my DD is accepting you can’t go backwards so not to rush but also not to spend 8 mins on one question!! DDs scores gave fluctuated wildly with some of her best ones early on. The free trial is more than sufficient to get a taste and may be less stress inducing!

Our experience over the last few weeks is a bit different. He is now regularly scoring top marks on the maths ISEB pre-test (last four: 142, 141, 132, 136) and English has settled at low 120s level.

Just like the others above I was initially confused by the grammar expectations, but we simply took this as an opportunity to learn something new.

Will spend a bit more time on reasoning in the next several weeks, but he's got Sutton Grammars' SET on the 11th, so English and Maths take priority for now.

@GrammarHopeful Our experience with maths is fairly similar but I have noticed that after a number of tests, the same questions keep coming back which I believe is artificially inflating DD’s scores. That’s partly why we are no longer working on Atom. She will probably do one final mock of each subject closer to the exam but otherwise I think we’re done with Atom.
Good luck for the upcoming exam!

@Oceane11plus Thanks a lot, same to your DD (and you)!

We are still doing paper-based tests too. He actually prefers it, not least because I am doing them with him more often than not (and he enjoys beating me [occasionally :D])

@Utility

Is this really a fair solution? State primary entrants have not had to prepare for computer based tests. Many prep school entrants have been undertaking computer ISEB practice daily for up to a year... The timing strikes me as being potentially tricky.

@Utility most schools do take into account whether the applicants have come from feeder schools and been prepared for the tests, or not, so they should try to make it fair. Last year I felt the same concern, so we used Peakprep.co.uk to familiarise for the tests - they have a free trial with mock tests, so at least my son was used to the test format. AtomLearning.co.uk also has a good free trial, and Planet Bofa sells mock tests for preparing for the 11+ and pretests. I know the tests are v soon now, so good luck!

@starlilly88

Struggling with the English too. DS goes to a prep school but has never heard of half the grammar terms. Doing well on the comprehension part but not on the grammar. So English scores very average. Surely most Year 6 pupils can't have covered all those grammar terms so not sure what they're basing their average on

The pretests are only based on Y5 curriculum with tiny bit of y6, so we found Atom too hard too... its definitely beyond that level. There are alternatives like PeakPrep (free trial includes mocks) and PlanetBofa. Pre-test plus also do mock tests. IXL. is also good just for practising the Y5 English grammar only.

[quote Oceane11plus]**@MarshaBradyo In maths the main difference I have noticed is that past papers often include some longer questions, involving lateral thinking and testing innate mathematical ability, especially towards the end. Questions on Atom tend to be pretty short although there are also multi step problems. And of course Atom like ISEB is multiple choice.
If you have a limited budget and already have resources at home (past papers, books from various editors in all 4 subjects), I would be focusing on that, and a week before the actual exam, use Atom as a free trial so that your DC gets used to the format/working on a screen, the time pressure etc
My older DCs did not have atom when they sat the ISEB pre test or CEM assessments and did very well (I can guarantee that my DS would have failed pretty badly had the ISEB pre test been as grammar heavy as the Atom English mocks )

@SuiGeneris I fully agree. The more I think about it, the more I realise Atom have a “commercial” agenda. In hindsight I don’t regret it as my DD liked the novelty of practicing on a screen and their explanations are fairly comprehensive but it’s not a necessity and there are plenty of other great quality paper based resources out there.[/quote]
@MarshaBradyo and @SuiGeneris don't worry my experience last year was that the pretests are definitely easier than Atom. We used peakprep free trial for mock tests, and IXL is good for revision at the right level because you can opt to just do Y5 stuff which is what the pretests are based on largely.

@WombatChocolate

Sorry...got cut off.

Extensive months of tutoring are not required but a few sessions to familiarise with the styles of NVR questions a nd learn to work in tight time conditions are very worthwhile.

peakprep.co.uk do a free trial and you can access all pretest-type questions on there. Pretestplus.co.uk also do the test for practice. We did the exams with our first child last year and his scores improved loads after a few practice sessions on VR and NVR.

Does anyone know how the pretest plus mocks compare to the atom learning ones for ISEB. And also how correlated they are to the real thing.
I bought the pretest ones a while ago for DD to practice nearer the exams, but after reading the comments on here about the Atom learning, and the limited experience I have of them, I’m wondering if I should not bother. Although I have paid for them already, I just don’t want to over burden her if they are no good.

@GrammarHopeful hi, did your son sit the Sutton mocks? And if yes, did he score very highly? I’m imagining yes with those grades? The maths is through the roof!

I think I’m confirming what I already know but we won’t get told the scores for ISEB will we? I guess the only indication is progression to second round (where applicable) or offers.. argh!

@Stircrazyschoolmum Exactly, we don't get told the scores... It's going to be such a long wait for us between November and January for the second round offers.

Hi, @Doobiedooo. I wish you were right...

He sat SGSPTA online mock (Session P) in September and did terribly in Maths! English was ok, but not brilliant.

I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, but he has SEN (autism), which makes certain things a lot more difficult for him than neurotypical children. He has pretty high IQ (95th percentile), but relatively low processing speed, which puts him at a major disadvantage due to the punishing pace required for grammars. I've applied for special access arrangements for him, which were mercifully granted by Tiffin and Sutton (but not Kent), but still I am not holding my breath. Any time he is met with a tricky word problem or is a time sink trap, he steps right into it, and we can't seem to get over this no matter how much we try to work on it through practice. After all, rigidity of thought is a characteristic autistic trait. He won't move on until he is done, and this is always costing him: he realises he running out of time, but can't bring himself to switch to the next one. Often, this means he panics, gets tearful and generally becomes an anxious wreck He does very much want to go to a school with clever DCs, though, and is willing to work hard (and has always done so: not unusual for him to get up at 5 am to do the homework on his own).

In contrast, both ISEB pre-test and indie paper tests appear to be a little more forgiving on timing, so he's been more successful with those.

Soon enough we'll know. He run out of time at Tiffin (even with extra time), so, as I said, grammars may just be out of our reach, but I'd hate it, if we didn't try, and so would he...

@GrammarHopeful Your son seems incredibly mature and hard working for his age, that’s so impressive I hope everything works out for him, he clearly deserves it. I don’t know the grammar system but it seems quite digit in its admission approach, unlike independent schools which have more of an holistic approach.

Thank you, @Oceane11Plus, you are very kind.

We are keeping options open, so he'll be doing ISEB pre-test at the end of the month for some of the SW London independents as well. However, preference is grammar, as fees will be a massive financial strain post-Covid.

Grammar good luck to your Ds he does sound very diligent and deserving

We’re going to give Atom a try it’s been useful to see what others have scored. We have no basis for comparison (Ds does well at school but this will help)