Can someone explain ISEB to me?

[Stircrazyschoolmum]

Just that really.. a number of the indies are using ISEB this year due to Covid. I understand it’s online, multiple choice and covers English /maths/VR/NVR. But how in practice does this actually work? Is there paper to work out the maths on? Is it intuitive how to click on answers? What does adaptive mean in this context?!

We are at a state primary so it’s all gibberish.. it seems a good way to keep kids safe and reduce stress from multiple exams but if your DC has a bad day then all eggs in one basket?!?

I feel I have hi-jacked this thread so have started another one.

I think the early exams will give more time to interview in Jan when the numbers invited into school will be smaller at a time.

Where does everyone think schools like Alleyn’s and JAGS fit into, in terms of selectivity, as well as range of Atom learning mock scores that would be required.

I’m completely new to ISEB and just also trying to get my head around when DD should be sitting the test in terms of preparedness. So we may have to make the difficult decision of dropping some schools off our list.

I have also found on Atom learning, only used it once so far and it was for a mock exam, it’s not straightforward moving from one paper to the next

@WarmAndco3y Based on the information provided by PP I would expect children need to score at least 115-120 on Atom to stand a chance for very selective schools such as jags and alleyns as would imply real scores of 125-130+ (assuming Atom scores are 10 points below the real test).

We’ve been told that schools will be taking into account the timing of sitting the ISEB test in the overall appreciation just like they take into account a state school vs prep school background, the age of the child etc

As far as we are concerned, we have around 6 weeks until DD sits her pretest and I think it’s more than enough as she will probably be at her “peak” by then. A

oceane do schools take into account whether someone has been state or private? Who told you that? I thought the selections tests were the main then?

This explains scores on ATOM from their FAQ

"When pupils sit a mock test, they are given a Standard Age Score (SAS), just like in a real adaptive test e.g. the ISEB Common Pre-Tests. This is their overall raw score adjusted for their age and placed on a scale relative to all other users on the platform.

The Standard Age Score takes into account the difficulty of the questions that were answered correctly and incorrectly to provide an attainment estimate. The attainment estimate is then standardised against all other users (taking age into account), to provide an estimate of where the student sits among all other users on the platform in terms of their attainment.

Just as the ISEB Common Pre-Tests, we use a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15; this means that if your child scores 100 in a mock test, 50% of students would have scored higher than them and 50% would have scored lower.

Please note that the Atom Learning SASs are standardised to students who have used the platform, who are predominantly students from top UK preparatory schools. This means that your child’s SAS scores on Atom will likely be lower than their CAT scores that are standardised across students nationally. Therefore, parents and students should not be disheartened if the SAS is much lower than they are used to - this is merely a reflection of the pool of students on the platform.

As our tests are adaptive, we do not use a percentage to grade the student. In an adaptive test, all pupils sit different questions and should roughly answer the same percentage of questions correctly, regardless of attainment - around 50%. Answering 50% of questions correctly allows the test-maker to derive the most accurate score for the student."

I don't know if ISEB uses a national average or the average of the pool of students sitting for that school to determine a pass rate.

I believe ISEB standardised scores are based on the national average, in the same way as the CAT tests they do at school. Based on this methodology the required score for very selective schools would be 125-130+.
If ISEB scores were to be based on applicant scores (Atom methodology) then you can lower these scores by about 10 points which is I believe the difference in cognitive ability between the national average and the average of applicants sitting these tests.

@noughtmare

oceane do schools take into account whether someone has been state or private? Who told you that? I thought the selections tests were the main then?

We are state and a friend spoke to admissions at one school as she was worried about being at a disadvantage and they confirmed that they look at state vs prep as part of the bigger picture and are very aware which preps prepare candidates within an inch of their lives etc and will take that into account.

I'd love to know DD's CAT scores - it would make me feel much better about whether we are barking up the wrong tree with our applications. However, our (state) school refuse to give out a single mark other than below/ at or exceeding expectations.

Thanks all. It’s really all very interesting, thinking about the different dynamics. In the independent sector, there are also schools that follow through to secondary and don’t prepare DC, because they want them to stay on.
I guess one of the good things about atom learning also is that it helps to highlight weak areas and so we can focus on these, This is crucial for us now, as there isn’t that much time left and going through all the atom learning modules isn’t an option.

We are also trialling Atom and finding the platform useful in these early days. However there is an increasing part of me that equally doesn’t want to fully rely on Atom as the sole means test
Prep for mocks, we have no idea how similar the ISEB platform will be. This i believe, is the downside, with 11+ moving online with ISEB - children are now at a disadvantage to using new platform that is ‘one way’ street adaptive testing. There are not many alternative ways to prepare for the ISEB.

Traditional papers based allows for ease of reviewing all questions and knowing how far through the test they are against the time clock.
I hope our children are given due consideration with this format thrust upon us all.

I would second what wombat chocolate has said. Its important to familiarise your DC with the style of the test and the type of questions (which require similar skills to the ones you would be practicing in preparation for 11+). A few practice tests is probably all it takes to get up to speed. If you DC is good at comprehension they will do well in the multiple choice comprehension and if they are good at math they will do well in the math. Likewise with the VR and NVR, even if most of the practice has been done on paper up until now. I think the format is actually a lot easier and less stressful than the usual pretests which include long written comprehensions (which boys struggle with at this age) and writing stories (which kids can be tutored for in order to regurgitate on the day of the exam).

@EnolanotAlone my child did the ISEB on Tuesday and said it was exactly like ATOM. She spent the last two weekends doing the mocks in full (all four subjects in one go to mirror the test) and she was consistent in her scores. She had improved slightly from the mocks done a month a go. I think it's important children know they are not going to be able to answer every question - unless a genius - but can still do really well ("In an adaptive test, all pupils sit different questions and should roughly answer the same percentage of questions correctly, regardless of attainment - around 50%. Answering 50% of questions correctly allows the test-maker to derive the most accurate score for the student.").

It's annoying they cannot go back to previous questions to review answers or ones they may want to skip and try it they have time at the end, but everyone is in the same position.

Perhaps I’m a pessimist (or a worrier!) but I’m kind of expecting the Atom score for first round offers of Alleyns / WHS / JAGS to be 130 plus. I think there are some very bright kids out there. There are several boys in DD’s class (state) routinely scoring this high and the Co-Ed competition is really fierce.

Obviously the interviews/creative writing/other activities will play a part too and since the same kids apply to multiple schools I reckon scores will fall to 125 range.

Like I say, this may be overly pessimistic but I’m referring to the super selective ones and basing my experience on the Wandsworth Test.

It sounds like you care very much. It is indeed worrying when it's in their hands and you cannot do anything for them, except offer moral support.

Super selectives do sound fierce and clearly there are some very bright and exceptional children.

Yes, I do care and it is worrying. To give you context, someone asked at the WHS open day this morning what the school would do if lots of girls scored 100%. They didn’t treat this as an unrealistic proposition!

I envy you having it done and dusted summer and I feel reassured by your DD’s experience that the ‘real’ test was very similar to atom. Thank you for sharing. It’s a good point to sit all the tests together.. we haven’t attempted that!

Goodness!! My child is in the high average/above average category (top 40%) so quite a distance from the top 4% you are talking about (we've certainly not gone for a super selective).

If they are naturally gifted, then not much prep to do, just familiarisation I think and lots of positive affirmations as I feel positivity and confidence can be the difference between a good or bad performance. The mocks meant we could tell her "we know you can do it", "you know what to do", "Just do the same as you have already done and you'll be fine" etc. The test was meant to be split over two days but with COVID they only wanted one instance of her being on site when she isn't from the school so it was all four tests in one go. Quite tiring so at last she had practised this and knew what to expect from the morning.

@Happysummer thank you for your reassurance on Atom vs ISEB, it was a well honed cautious instinct with feeling a liitle out of control in this years 11+ gig. Our test is next month and only early days into Atom.

Hope your daughter found the exam process more relaxing with the familiarity - may you get the offers you are seeking in this process.

I feel the system will change next year. The mess is giving advantages to kids who have spent enough time on Atom.

@uk2020 I have to agree with you. Who would have guessed Atom, a relatively new start up operation would be the lead tutoring platform for Yr 6 exams... I dearly wish we knew about it during March lockdown and limited schooling.

@Stircrazyschoolmum Unfortunately I agree with you. Even if the Atom website states that an Atom score of 115-120+ should be enough for UK's most academic schools, I can't help thinking that we should probably be aiming for a mean Atom score of at least 130.

It would be interesting to get the feedback from parents of boys who've sat the ISEB pre test in previous years and were called to the next stage, what scores they were getting on Atom and which schools they were subsequently offered (knowing that's it's probably tougher for boys as there seems to be a greater choice of very selective girls' schools compared to boys). Unfortunately Atom did not exist when my son sat this pre test so I have no reference.

Has any DD or DS achieved top score on an ATom mock? Esp with it being adaptive... are we aiming to a psueduo CAt of 141? Or somethign different?

@EnolanotAlone I just went to check and DD got a score of 142 twice (full marks), in English (ISEB mock) and VR (consortium). However I am pretty convinced it was due to a “bug” in the algorithm as subsequent scores have been noticeably lower. As written above we’re not aiming for 140+, not least due to the amount of careless mistakes DD makes by answering too quickly and not reading the questions properly. At this stage a mean score of 130 by the exam would sound like a good outcome for us.

My DD did this last year. She didn't do the ISEB pre-test but attended assessment days where she sat the CEM-Select amongst other things at each school. It was an adaptive test. Last step was to sit the common entrance in January - this was written papers though.

@Pinkyxx

My DD did this last year. She didn't do the ISEB pre-test but attended assessment days where she sat the CEM-Select amongst other things at each school. It was an adaptive test. Last step was to sit the common entrance in January - this was written papers though.

@Pinkyxx thank you for your post. Could you tell us more about the common entrance she sat in January? was i a full examination: creative writing, maths, english and VR/NVR papers?

@2morasmum

The Common Entrance is a full written examination, done under exam conditions. DD sat 1 English comprehension, 1 English writing, 1 Mathematics and 1 Science paper. So 4 separate exams. I think they were staggered over 2 days, could have been 3 - January is a blur now! She sat them at her state primary school. The results went to her first choice school.

She did not have to do a VR/NVR paper, but I do recall that was part of the CEM-Select test done during the assessment days. I think these types of papers are more commonly done for Grammar schools those doing the 11+ vs those who do the Common Entrance.

Hope this helps!