A levels: Maths, Further Maths, Chemistry and Economics?

[hoodiemum]

DS has come back from interview at college full of confusion. He told them he wanted to do Maths, FMaths, Chemistry and Economics and they are not keen, for two reasons:

• They don't like people doing 4 A levels (although they would allow it given than he's towards the top end academically - 6 9s and 4 8s at GCSE).
• They think that doing chem without bio or physics will limit his options for top unis.

He's not actually sure if he'll be able to take the pace of FMaths anyway, so may well eventually drop down to three. But does anyone have any insight into the option-limiting aspect of his choices?

As a degree, he has no idea, but thinks some of these might be of interest: PPE, chemistry, psychology, economics, computer science, something medical ...

We've looked up several unis' entry requirements for chemistry, and maths seems OK as a second science (he could even do biology at Durham with just maths and chemistry, according to their entry requirements). None that we've found say you NEED bio or physics, but in reality would not having them count against him?

We know that a maths degree is facilitated by further maths, but how important would it be for compsci or economics?

Until earlier today, his A level shortlist was: physics, chemistry, biology, maths, further maths, economics, politics. He can't say which interest him more than others and is just looking for a set that will keep as many doors open as possible.

I have a degree in chemistry from Manchester (albeit it's now 14 years old)

I did a level chemistry and maths. And AS level history and biology. At the time their main concern was the chemistry. And to be honest the maths stood me in good stead because we had to be at a specific level for maths (we were tested in our first week) in order to do the lab calculations.

Maths, further maths and economics is a big old load of maths .
He'd be better dropping economics and doing another science if he is that way inclined.

If he wants to do ppe then an essay subject like history would be good

Admittedly it's a 'proper' 4 (as opposed to FM), but Maths, Physics, Chem and Eco would give him plenty of options. Dropping and of Chrm, Physics or Eco, should he dislike them would still leave him with a cohesive 3.

I think he's got a good set of subjects - all he's really ruled out is a physics degree.

I have a chemistry degree with Maths, Further Maths and Chemistry A levels. Got an EE offer from Durham too. DH did Maths, Chemistry and Physics - now has a PhD in Chemistry, and has a biology/biochem heavy job. But obviously that's ~30 years ago. I'd say you definitely need maths for chemistry but no other science.

FM important for very selective Computing (imperial for example), but not vital for most other computing or econ

I would say 4 a-levels is a bit less work if one is further maths, because it’s less broad. So he should push for it, his grades are good enough.

Chemistry is the most useful of the sciences for getting into general courses. Biology is the least.

Physics would be useful for computer science etc but I don’t think it’s essential.

Economics is probably the least useful for getting into places but gives him a chance to do a bit of essay writing and reading, which is probably useful for variety and wider skills. People who do all science and maths can get away without writing an essay for two years!

Thanks so much, guys. Huge help. Sounds as though it's not as crazy a plan as the college is making out...

It's 40 years ago, but a chemistry degree has a lot of maths, and the boundaries between physics and chemistry can be rather blurred. I did maths, physics and chemistry for A-levels, plus 2 of them at S level.

...then became an accountant, where the maths stood me in good stead!

I agree with a pp who says that maths, f/maths and economics is too much maths!

4 A levels sounds sensible if doing FM. I would say ideally he would try to narrow down his uni options now. Perhaps drop economics (which isn't especially useful for uni applications) in favour of physics or CS.

A level economics is generally not a requirement for an economics degree so dropping that in favour of another subject would make sense. DD and DS each took 4 A levels heavy in maths. F.maths is tough but not considered to be a 4th subject in the same sense as other subjects so I am surprised that the college is objecting especially as your DS is clearly capable.

Both DCs knew their chosen degrees prior to choosing a level options and they are both maths based (but not actually maths) with f.maths being a plus rather than a necessity.

I've just looked up the entry requirements for Chemistry at Imperial College, one of top unis for STEM subjects. Chemistry, Maths and Economics would be fine.

Economics does give some balance though - at A-level it isn’t really just/all “maths” - so useful if he wanted to go PPE route or similar.

Unless it’s changed massively in the last 20 years A level economics is not hugely maths focused and leans more towards the BA end of the subject. It was more theoretical and essay based if I recall correctly. But maybe it depends on the exam board.

Universities frequently state that they prefer 3 A'levels with good grades over 4 A'levels with mediocre grades. Further Maths is very hard but highly prized if you can manage it. DS is currently studying Astro-physics at uni, he took maths and physics A'levels and BTEC in IT. (The programming skills he learnt on the BTEC have been really helpful). It is surprising how many degree courses (physics, history, economics) don't require A'levels in those subjects.

I also think economics gives a broader range of subjects and opens options rather than closes them. I also agree that 4 a levels when 1 is FM is a good idea if his grades allow.
I did maths, FM, economics and biology. The biology was my odd one out. I think 5 out of 8 of us taking FM also chose economics. It is great to have experience writing essays and being able to put forward arguments, and to get a grounding in demand and supply. Most jobs will benefit from that no matter what they are.

I expect my youngest will probably choose maths and further maths and do well in them; I may be disappointed if he only gets to do one additional subject. (he's going into yr 11)

I'm a chemist, I did double maths, physics and chemistry - that's probably the commonest and 'easiest' 4 a level combination because of overlap. Doing economics instead of physics might be harder (I don't know what a level econ. Is like).

They think that doing chem without bio or physics will limit his options for top unis.

A quick google of requirements for chemistry at some top unis says otherwise. A pp has cited imperial; oxford also requires chemistry and maths and doesn't specify the 3rd subject. A second science might be a good idea for a Natural Sciences degree at Cambridge.

I think he's got a good set of subjects - all he's really ruled out is a physics degree.
Or engineering but neither of these was on his list anyway.

Anyway, for sure for chemistry the essentials are chemistry and maths (actually some quite decent places don't even require maths, I assume they will have different maths courses/options).

Following with interest. DS has just enrolled to do Maths, Economics and Geography. He asked about FM and the careers advisor and enrolment teacher both said not necessary and most unis would favour 3 stronger results, although if he chose to do a Maths degree it certainly would be recommended. He's hoping to do Economics at University

I thought maths/fmaths/chemistry/economics might be a problem for the first year at Cambridge, which is quite broad - but it looks like it doesn't rule out ANY of the options (for physics they say maths & Fmaths will suffice)!

My DS got almost exactly the same GCSE results, did Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry, and got 4 x A*
For a pupil of that ability level, I don't really understand the college's objection to the fourth A-level.

I think your DS has chosen a perfectly valid subject combination which will give him plenty of options for university courses.

only issue will be if he does end up wanting to do the 'something medical' from the OP - surely most unis require biology?

PPE seems very different from all the other degrees he's considering so maybe leaning more towards sciences would keep his options more open (from the list he is considering) as the college have said?

Sounds quite a nice mix. My DS did Maths, Further Maths , Economics and Physics A-levels and is now at uni doing Physics. Yes All quite mathsy but DS enjoyed Economics and the debating/ discussing side of that so it was probably a nice one to do alongside all the science.