Are 5/6 GCSE grades more suited to A levels or BTECS?

[NoToMisogyny]

Getting close to the 11th hour now - my daughter is waiting for her grades on Thursday and then (if she gets the minimum grades for both) has to decide between A Levels (media studies, drama, psychology) at her current school or BTECs (she’s keen on one subject - performing arts - but is finding it very hard to muster up any interest in any others) at a college where she has been offered a place.

She’s still totally unsure what she should do if she gets (as expected) a clutch of 5s and 6s. That would meet the minimum requirement for A Levels, but is that really good enough for A level study? Both of us worry about her being out of her depth if everyone else has 7-9s.

But before school closed she really upped her game and was getting 7s in her essays, particularly in English Lit. She’s leaning towards sixth form being her preference (and ultimately it will be her choice) but I really don’t want her to end up struggling.

Does anyone have any advice please? We don’t personally know anyone who is expecting similar grades - all her friends are super academic!

Believe it or not in many non crappy comps in 2020 you can still do A Levels with a 'C' . It's inclusion!

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A levels are supposed to be highly academic. In a system where an extremely high proportion of children now get the equivalent of an A at GCSE, that would suggest that the child with a C (i.e a 5) either isn't very academic or had a really bad day (not relevant this year). As such, A levels are probably not the best option for them.

I agree that A levels with a B grade should be fine.

And my reference to "a really crappy comp" was a reference to my own school 30 years ago where only a very few people went on to A levels and where you had to have a minimum of a B. It clearly wasn't a reference to comprehensive schools in general.

@HasaDigaEebowai very sweeping statements. Read my earlier post. Achievement is not always linear. I bet you support grammar schools too.

Of course there will always be exceptions - children who didn't work to their full potential at GCSE or who had a bad day (but that is not relevant this year)

But in general terms, if a child is getting the equivalent of Cs at GCSE then A levels are probably not the best option for them IMO. A levels are hard.

I'm not sure what grammar schools have to do with anything

I’m going to echo what PPs have said about students like progress not being linear, or happening at the same time.

Even a year ago, I might have had reservations about DD doing A levels; she has ADHD and a spiky cognitive profile, and school life has been a hard slog at times.
However, she turned a corner towards the end of year 10 and absolutely blossomed in year 11; she has been offered scholarships at 2 selective schools for 6th form, and has chosen to study English lit, drama, geography and psychology A levels.

Good luck for tomorrow!

@Alsoplayspiccolo sounds like my son. I hate that some (elitist) schools write these kids off. Good luck to your daughter. 💗

DS1 is about to go into Y11 and I’m wondering the same thing. He desperately wants to do A levels so he can stay on at his school (really doesn’t want to go to College) but his predicated grades are a bit all over the place. He is predicted (or was before lockdown) 7’s and 8’s in Triple Science and Maths, 6 in PE, 5 in Spanish and Geography and 4’s for English. He is also doing Btec Media Studies and usually gets either a Merit or distinction. He absolutely hates English with a passion despite being in the top set (no idea how or why he has managed that). He wants to do a random combination of physics, media and PE a-levels because he loves the subjects but maybe a Btec would be better.

Thanks, Railings.
She was written off when she was diagnosed at 8, by the consultant paediatrician who told us to forget school, because it would be miserable, and that we should find her a nice little hobby.

We did find her a hobby...and she’s just performed in The Tempest at the Willow Globe.
We have advocated tirelessly for her since her diagnosis, moving schools in year 8 and having to push right up until mocks to get the access arrangements she is entitled to in place.

I’ll tell her about your son - he sounds wonderful and an inspiration!

It is going to be very borderline whether my dd can go on to do A Levels at her 6th form. She really wants to do the a-level subjects she has chosen and there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of BTEC subjects to choose from and none of them really grab her attention. We have no idea if she will manage to get into 6th form tomorrow, but she is flat out refusing to discuss college or BTECS.

Your daughter sounds very similar to mine, except my dd isn’t hung up on doing A levels, she just doesn’t want to take Btec subjects that don’t interest her.

I’m concerned that just because DD could do A levels, doesn’t mean she should. I agree they were designed for the more academic - and struggling with them/ dropping out would do massive damage to her self esteem and just generally backfire terribly

Something to add to the mix is what performing arts is going actually be like this year if they can’t perform. I know at Dds school they won’t be allowed to use the theatre to begin with. Choirs are out too (high risk). I think Drama may be easier to do over Zoom.

Yes - that’s another thing that’s been concerning me. The PA teacher spoke to DD on the phone and was raving about all the performances they put on and how they visit the theatre up to 12 times a year. That ain’t going to be happening!!

Lol one of our local comps really only wants pupils with 7s or higher for Alevels. No wonder they get good results in sixth form!

My DD did Alevel Psychology and the only maths IIRC was Stats which is IMHO easier to understand. I would say a v good memory and good essay writing skills are more important as regurgitating facts about studies seemed to be key (can you tell she asked me to test her when revising)

As for Sociology being less mathsy, she didn’t do it at Alevel but has just finished a BSc Sociology - classed as a science degree as involved some stats.

Actually DS did Sociology Alevel, but as he never asked for help...

Also to add DD was a bit disappointed that Alevel Psychology wasn’t really about investigating the reasons for MH issues, more about the facts/numbers involved in studies and what they found. She has found Sociology much more interesting!

A level drama is similar in some ways to doing English literature. There's a fair bit of essay writing and discussion but for plays rather than novels. The NEA is 60% iirr - two performed pieces and a portfolio. At DD's school they wanted students to have ideally a 6 at English lit but would admit a 5 too.

In many schools a grade 6 is more than plenty to do an a level. At DD's school none asked for a 7 or able.

Some high achieving schools don't admit students with lower as they would lower the a level results potentially. But a comprehensive school who has a level grades across the whole spectrum is more likely too.

At the college is it possible to do a mix of a levels and BTEC? DD's sixth form allows for this and I know some of DD's friends do this.

A grade 7 is an A
A grade 6 is a high B.
A grade 5 is a lower B/ higher C.
A grade 4 is C or standard pass.

I think only grades 4 and 7 officially match up on the old Ofqual chart they used to have out.

8 and 9 are both A star, with 9 being the very top x percent of that, more like an A star star I guess.

Do remember that MN in general has very high attaining children. Don't let that put you or your daughter off.

Interesting from Piggy here, and I certainly bow to your more up to date knowledge.

A friend of dd's did Eng lit A level with a 4, and she passed it (I think) , and has just finished foundation Yr at uni, so I take it her grade was not high.

That same school now asks for a 6 at GCSE for A level, and will only flex on this in specific circumstances (eg a mate of ds's got a high 5 in business. But he is struggling with the A level).

I said 7 is ideal in MFL as a 6, while a good grade, shows tenses for example are not secure, which would cause real issues acA level, where that label of knowledge is exoected. DD got A in GCSE French and a C at A level. It's a big jump from "what I do at the weekend" to discussing Brecht's plays in German. But the ops DD is not looking at MFL so that's not relevant, just wanted to explain.

I read an interesting article in (I think) the Guardian about selection pressures post 18 and thus post 16. I think it's a bit sad when I see warning like "expect Cs at A level" when that is in fact in the middle of the grading for the qualification. I used to teach a boy for GCSE Biology who was no scientist, but he loved Biology and wanted to do an A level to go alongside his Public Services L3 BTEC. He just got a C at GCSE (back in the day - probably would have been a 4 now), and when we ran his GCSE results through whatever system we were using for A level targets it came out with a U for Biology. But... he loved studying it, and I loved teaching him, and he got an E in the end and was chuffed to have passed. It would have been sad to say that he had to stop learning about something he really enjoyed, just as it was starting to get interesting. He joined the police after school. One of my favourite students.

I do agree different in different subjects. I teach Maths now, and a 4 would really struggle. I almost feel Maths is best on teacher recommendation. Facility with algebra is key IMO.

@TheFallenMadonna

I read an interesting article in (I think) the Guardian about selection pressures post 18 and thus post 16. I think it's a bit sad when I see warning like "expect Cs at A level" when that is in fact in the middle of the grading for the qualification. I used to teach a boy for GCSE Biology who was no scientist, but he loved Biology and wanted to do an A level to go alongside his Public Services L3 BTEC. He just got a C at GCSE (back in the day - probably would have been a 4 now), and when we ran his GCSE results through whatever system we were using for A level targets it came out with a U for Biology. But... he loved studying it, and I loved teaching him, and he got an E in the end and was chuffed to have passed. It would have been sad to say that he had to stop learning about something he really enjoyed, just as it was starting to get interesting. He joined the police after school. One of my favourite students.

It is the middle of the grades. However the sad fact is that depending on the young person having C’s can seriously affect their choice of university.

My son is musical. He expects 7/8 tomorrow in music, maybe 6 in maths then 4/5. If he takes A levels he’d probably do ok in music but would be looking at lower grades in the other subjects. Whereas taking a Btec means he will be much more likely to gain higher marks and will have almost the full spectrum of universities to choose from (excluding Oxford, Cambridge, Birmingham & Manchester).

But you are assuming that the only point of A levels is university. Rather than an extra two years of studying something interesting. My lovely student was never planning on university.

I loved that Guardian article!

Me too! I am so tired of the writing off of lower passing grades. And I think it is really adversely affecting the education of some groups of students.

Thanks for all replies - incredibly useful. My daughter has already decided that she’ll probably switch psychology for sociology (although worried about the gender ideology component!).

She is not looking to go to university - she in no way wants to rack up £50k of debt just for the sake of going. An apprenticeship would be ideal but again, helpful if she had any idea at all what area she wants to go into!

Good luck to your daughter. Hope she is happy with her results tomorrow! Not knowing what you want to do yet is another very good reason for doing something you enjoy. My DD is in the same boat (also results tomorrow) and my DS is shortly to start a History degree, because he still has no idea either, so is spending another 3 years doing what he loves!

My son goes to a non selective state school sixth form. They require six subjects at 6 or above and grade 7s for the subject you want to do at A level.
If you want to do further maths you need an 8