Secondary in SE10, SE3, Lewisham and Lee

[snowbam]

So please tell me about secondaries in Greenwich, Blackheath, Lewisham and Lee areas?

I would prefer to hear about State but if there is any fantastic co-Ed private schools I might be interested but probably can't afford them.

John Roan seemed to have a terrible time of it?

Some people like Thomas Tallis but the results for Tallis and John Roan seem really poor to me.

It seems like people leave Greenwich and Blackheath because of a lack of good secondary schools.

I am looking into the area?

I have been told I am a bit mad that the primary level is good but that is goes down hill for secondary?

Thanks

The schools in those areas are comprehensive schools so if the results were 100% grade 7-9, it would suggest that the intake was somehow being selected or that there was cheating in exams. Comprehensive schools should have a comprehensive set of results, with fewer students gaining grades at the extreme ends than in the middle. It doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of students at those schools who are awarded the highest grades but that there are also students there who are awarded the lowest.

I live in SE13 and know lots of children who've attended our local schools and done extremely well at GCSE, certainly as well as their peers who've taken up grammar places slightly further afield. They've been at Thomas Tallis, Trinity, Eltham Hill, John Roan, Prendergast and Haberdasher Askes, Hatcham. Not all those schools look wonderful on the league tables but if you talk to people who have children there at the moment, you'll hear of some of the brilliant opportunities they've been given and about the advantages of being in a diverse environment e.g. Tallis is very sought after locally because of its reputation as a creative school. I also have friends with children currently at Sedgehill and at St Matthew. Again, they may not look great on results but the experiences on offer to the students are vast and those I know with children in Y11 at the moment have been pleased with the teaching, the wider experience and are confident their children have been well-prepared for post 16.

Greenwich and Blackheath have easy access to a number of independent schools but are also close enough to the Bexley, Bromley and Dartford grammars to seemingly make people think those are the superior options and anything else would be a disaster. Sadly.

I wonder if the Covid-19 pandemic will lead to any change in school application patterns, especially with regard to choosing schools that it's possible to walk to. I know I'm feeling extra pleased that the comprehensive my DCs go to is within walking distance of our home.

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/100190/thomas-tallis-school/secondary/results-over-time?accordionstate=0

There’s no escaping the fact that there’s serious underperformance going on and the same sort of cohort would get grades 1 higher on average going to the desirable comps.

From what I’ve read on Mumsnet before, the trend seems to be to move out to places like Beckenham or generally to the borough of Bromley, apply for grammars or go down the independent route.

If you want the river, period architecture, nice shops and good schools than SW London is the place to be.

Re indies, Colfe’s and Eltham College are co-ed options.

I can't afford sw London - I could stretch to colfe's but maybe for the sixth form.

Yes Thomas Tallis does have some really poor results as does John Roan ... it would seem a risk to go there.. but se13 mummy it makes sense to walk to school..

What about Leigh Academy?

I have friends near St Matthews and I always think the school has a good vibe based upon walking past it

@JoJoSM2 Tallis is one of the desirable options locally! The results over time may not look brilliant but that sort of data doesn't give any idea about individuals' pathways through the school, nor does it give any idea of the superb opportunities available to students thanks to the school's connections. Colfe's has a reputation as being the indie middle class parents send their children to if they don't pass the 11+ but think their children won't be in a top set in one of the comprehensives.

@snowbam I don't know anyone who's at Leigh Academy and don't think it's been open long enough to have GCSE results. The children I know at St Matthew are Y10 or below and although I know parents are happy with the school, I don't know much more than that. As always, it's best to contact the schools and judge for yourself the appropriateness or otherwise of that setting for your child. Be wary of out of date reputations or third hand hearsay about schools, especially from people who don't currently work in/have children at those local schools.

Tallis has a pretty mixed catchment. So the total results might not look strong but certainly there have been some amazing results there for bright kids - know of 2 who've gone to Oxbridge from there recently.

Eltham Hill is perceived as a good school for girls.

There is Prendergast - heard good things about that?

But these schools are quite widely spread - are you currently living in the area or relocating in?

Ther are kids who go to the Bexley and kent grammars - the journeys can be pretty easy depending on where you live.

St Dunstans is another coed independent - like the others listed they can offer pretty generous scholarships and bursaries.

I have spent years talking to neighbours, their kids, teachers at the schools and numerous young people I had as babysitters about their experiences at John Roan and Thomas Tallis. I also looked at the data on results and progress scores as well as school websites and school visits. In the end I chose private for my DDs - I believe it’s what suits them best, not to say that JR and TT aren’t a perfect fit for other children.

Thank you very much for the comments..

Hi
I know children at Leigh, Tallis, John roan and st Ursula's. (As well as BHSG and colfes). All have had very positive experiences at the local state schools. Ultimately a smart kid with supportive parents will do well locally and benefit hugely from short travel times to pursue other interests or get homework done as they get older.
I believe Tallis sends more kids to oxbridge each year than any of the local independents if you look at the destinations.

Good luck with your decisions... it's difficult to know what they are all like unless you know kids personally.

Colfe's is good if you do decide to go private and it is just around the corner to Lee station and 'bus routes. They give decent bursaries and scholarships.

Have to say I know a few parents who children went to Tallis and they were not impressed, one removed their child as said it was disaster for her bright girl and they felt they got zero support from the school.

The results for Tallis and J Roan look so bad but yes I do hope some students do well.

Basically for us Greenwich and cheaper parts of Greenwich and Lee are where we could buy a house. In reality I don't think we can afford private school until later but it won't hurt to try sit the private tests to see how my child goes.

I guess one of the reasons parts of Greenwich, Blackheath and Lee are still affordable is partly due to the secondary school issue.

Decisions decisions decisions. We would love private but just can't realistically go for it in this economic climate.

Haberdashers Askes gets pretty good results. Brockley is a nice place to live as well.

Thanks GogoGone I will check it out

There are some lovely parts of Lee, but it can be a bit of a schools black hole. If you're moving into the area, do some research first to see which schools you might have got a place at if you'd been applying this year as even if you come to the area on the basis of some of the nicer schools, you may not get into any of them if you end up living in the wrong road. Of the schools I mention below, it would be unlikely you could choose many streets that would be in catchment for more than 1 or 2 of them!

It really depends whether you have boys or girls. Whether you're looking for mixed or single sex, what your kids interests are and whether they are grammar potential as to the areas that may work best for you.

Eltham Hill Girls is lovely (and as it is girls only, tends to have a slightly larger catchment than some), has a really nice small school feel to it.

Prendergast Girls is also sought after but has a relatively small catchment and should not be confused with the other two Prendergast schools in the area which are nowhere near as good.

Leigh Academy has only been open 2 years so early to tell but will have lovely new buildings, I've heard good things and was set-up by nearby Crown Woods.

Personally, I found Tallis to be a little too 'relaxed' and felt my kids would have got lost amongst the more disruptive kids. Didn't like it at all, but as others have said, it has a really good rep on the creative side.

If you're near Lee station, the grammars are a real option as it's only 10 minutes on the train and lots of kids travel that way of a morning. Others take the Bromley and Kent grammar tests and travel out to Newstead, St Olaves, Dartford and Wilmington Grammars, but those journeys would be much longer and they would be much less likely to have local friends.

Thank you

I have been told I am a bit mad that the primary level is good but that is goes down hill for secondary?

This is a Lewisham-wide problem, ime.

I don't know the Greenwich schools but Prendergast in Hilly Fields SE4 (there are a bunch of different schools in the federation, be careful!) is good if you have a daughter. I've heard good things about Prendergast Vale at primary stage, but it used to be a very rough comprehensive before it was rebranded.

Haberdashers' Aske's SE14 (again, there are about five of them, be careful!) is good but not the selective flavour of the month it used to be - a lot of the local middle-class parents who used to clamour for it are now opting for Deptford Green or taking a chance on getting in to Kingsdale. It is still a decent school but with a much more balanced intake.

DD’s grammar is co-Ed at sixth form (so no catchment at that stage) but for Y7 entry there is a 9 mile radius and it is girls only. There are girls from Greenwich who attend so they would still have local friends. Olaves for boys does not have the 9 mile catchment and is even tougher to get into. DD has friends with siblings who didn’t get into the grammars who are happy at private schools like Blackheath High or Eltham College Plus good local (but sadly not for you) comps like Bullers or Langley Park

This is an interesting thread, thank you. How difficult is it to get into the indies? Upthread it was mentioned that colfe's is good for those that failed the 11+. I understand to get into the grammars from this area (ie outside catchment) they have to be particularly high achieving so we weren't planning on sitting the Kent/bexley tests but instead looking at independent and local state. A few on the Isle of dogs look like they're doing well and only a short walk through the foot tunnel from Greenwich.

What isle of dogs schools are you thinking of?

I personally think grammar and private schools will be hard because:

Children sitting 11 plus but it is a high birth year

Private schools and some state students have taken lock down to really focus on 11 plus.

Private schools seem to have done a better job on remote learning.

I have heard Colfes is becoming more academic it used to be perceived as easier to get into but I am not so sure now. But yes it will be easier that state grammars .. if you live out of catchment.

On the IoD I was looking at George Green's and Canary Wharf College. Bacon's in rotherhithe maybe too.

@snowbam

I have heard Colfes is becoming more academic it used to be perceived as easier to get into but I am not so sure now. But yes it will be easier that state grammars .. if you live out of catchment.

It was always academic. The process for getting in is the same as for the selective grammars such as Newstead and St Olave's which do take people from out of the catchment area.

My (anecdotal) thoughts having had a child sit bexley grammar exams and local independent schools last/this year is that Colfes probably wouldn't admit a child that had failed the Bexley test. It's now pretty competitive and on a par with the local grammars.

Colfes always outperforms the grammars at GCSE but regularly still admits kids who have not passed the 11+ - make of that what you will.

Think Canary Wharf College is pretty new and untested?

The Kent grammars do require a higher grade from out of catchment students.

The Bexley ones do not. Once you are deemed 'selective' then it's purely on distance from the school. Some years SE3/SE10 are in the first wave of entrants and some years they're not. But quite often a persistent family (ie prepared to wait until the bitter end of the summer holidays) will be allocated a place at a grammar school for their selective kid.

As someone said, Newstead is 9 miles catchment so covers some of this area. And Olaves is purely on score.

@ChnandlerBong where's the comparative data showing Colfe's outperforms the grammars? From what I can find, Colfe's does iGCSE for at least English and maths so those results can't be directly compared with state school results because the qualifications are not regulated by Ofqual. In English lit, Shakespeare is an optional subject for the iGCSE but compulsory for the regulated GCSE.

The top 180 scorers in the Bexley selection test will be given their first choice of grammar regardless of home to school distance. After this, for everyone deemed selective, it generally comes down to distance from school (LAC, those with an EHCP, siblings etc are usually priority categories ahead of distance).