A Level Choices for Maths at Cambridge

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Hello! My DD is set on doing Maths at Cambridge and is looking at all the UKMT challenges. Recently she has become very interested in political discussions and wants to change her A levels to do either Politics or History, rather than Physics.

DD claims that it won't affect her chance at getting a spot, but I feel like it will take a lot more of her time, and it's less certain that she'll get a good grade. I'd personally much rather she just reads around history and follows the news, especially as I think she's assuming politics will be very debate heavy and she's underestimating the writing/workload.

Does anyone have any advice?

Presumably her other two are Maths and Further Maths?

I think that if she wants to read Maths at Cambridge, all they will care about is the quality of her Maths and her interest in it. However, I have asked DS (who is about to go into Yr 13 and has similar ambitions) - he says that the only way in which the Physics has helped his Maths is that it has given him lots more practice in the mechanics side of things, which your DD may benefit from? However, he agrees with me that Cambridge won't really care what her third subject is.

I would think that she would benefit hugely from pursuing something she is really interested in (DS does a fourth subject which is nothing to do with Maths/Physics at all purely for the sheer love of the subject).

Have you discussed Cambridge's requirement for STEP? She will need to prepare rigorously for that - I've known more than one excellent mathematician fall at that final hurdle despite getting more than the grades required by their offer.

If her other two are Maths and Further Maths, DS says she will definitely have more than enough time to tackle a more writing-heavy A Level alongside.

She's currently put herself down for maths, further maths, chemistry and physics.

Yes, I've heard that the STEP is extremely difficult so I'm unsure about the time she'll have to prepare, with 4 a levels, one being more writing heavy

STEP is hard.

Chemistry is harder than physics. I would drop swap physics for history/politics.

IIRC, the offer will be STEP + AAA, so your DD need 'only' get an A in history, which may take some pressure off.

Ah, DS went for exactly that combination but dropped the chemistry for the subject he wanted to take just for the sheer joy of it. He's not regretting it at all and is managing the workload fine.

Has she said why she wants to drop Physics rather than Chemistry? The Physics meshes very well with the Maths and she will find the former easier because of the latter.

She said that physics was harder than chemistry, and seemed rather dull as well! I'm personally not a big fan of the school's physics department, but I don't think that's a big enough reason to not take a subject - though DD clearly disagrees with me on that.

OP If she finds Chemistry more straightforward and interesting than Physics then that is likely to be the best subject for her.
Doing an essay subject such as History can be useful as well as it shows as broader skills range. I would also look carefully at the syllabus for History to see what period and topics would be studied.

I help with the school’s oxbridge applications, questions I would ask her:

Has she considered economics? Has some political stuff in and some essays but also ties in well with maths.

Has she looked at the physics syllabus - the content is quite different from gcse? There is a fair bit off cross over, lots of the mechanics is in both as are vectors and just practise/ exposure to manipulating equations and data.

Why history and why now? Has she checked out the topics covered and do they interest her?

All A-levels are hard, so no-one can say that physics is harder than chemistry or vide-versa, too many variables.

She only needs 3 A-levels but 4 is not unheard of when 1 is further maths, she could start with maths, further maths, chemistry (or physics) and history and scale down if the work load is too much.

Maths, FMaths and one or two others that she will enjoy. I would second the idea of looking at economics. I did maths, fmaths, physics and economics; the offer specified that the grades must be in the first three, so after that point I did very little out of lesson time for economics (but still did well). I don't think it will be a problem if she doesn't do physics, though, from the point of view of getting in. Does she know what she will want to do afterwards? If she wants to do something techy, that physics knowledge may be helpful, but there are plenty of other fields that use mathematicians.

You can do a FOI request and see how many students got interviewed, then offered a place and had Physics. I know about 15 of them over the years and every single one of them did Physics.

The vast majority of applicants will have physics, if only because people who like maths often like physics as well. That doesn't mean it's essential, or even makes any difference to the offer. The main thing they'll care about is the STEP grades.

I wouldn’t do 4 a-levels either. It’s not necessary and will potentially dilute her other a-levels.

Except in the case of FM you don't need 4 but 4 is quite usual when you are doing FM.

Another one who would suggest economics if she likes history/politics.

The average UCAS tariff total for folks admitted to Cambridge for Maths is 238, which is more four A* gives you. Vast majority will have done 4 or more including FM. Once you have Maths and Further Maths, the remaining choices are freer, but note that the Cambridge course has more physics-type applied in it than many maths courses, including some compulsory stuff in Y1-2. It's there in part for students who are going to transfer to NatSci to do physics there later. I seriously think keeping Physics is a good idea if you are going to try for Cambridge Maths. Oxford has less of that type of applied in it so maybe that would be a better choice. Neither would care about chemistry.

Can someone help - how can I be sure the secondary will offer Maths and Pure maths ?

Sorry I am not from the UK basically I don't want the local colleges to stop my son from doing good pure maths. Does that make sense?

@gagagogo if your son wants to do maths at university then the ideal A Level options are Maths and Further Maths, plus one or two other subjects. However, not all schools/colleges offer Further Maths, so look for one that does.

I’m less familiar with Cambridge but for Oxford, the recommendation would be maths, further maths then whatever you are interested in and will do best in. Having politics or history may make ds a much more rounded interesting candidate at interview.

To be honest I think too much emphasis is put on taking specific subjects by schools to get in for x,y,z. Obviously you need maths for maths, but for example a recent student of mine was studying medicine having done a levels in chemistry (essential), biology, history, art. I have done interviewing for Oxford, although as I say not maths at Cambridge in particular.

She should do maths, further maths without question. She should also do physics to improve her chances. Fourth choice an be politics or history.

@gagagogo

Can someone help - how can I be sure the secondary will offer Maths and Pure maths ?

Sorry I am not from the UK basically I don't want the local colleges to stop my son from doing good pure maths. Does that make sense?

A level Maths is mainly Pure Maths (4 modules pure, 1 mech and 1 stats) - there is no separate subject called Pure Maths. Do you mean Further Maths?

Thank you so much - that must be it. I am not sure our local secondary schools offer further maths.

I will check.

Thank you so much too for the responses.

I greatly appreciate them.