Thinking of moving DD from her school at end of year 7 due to poor handling of closure period - anyone else in the same boat

[fancymcfancypants]

That's it really. We've been really, really disappointed with provision from the school during the closure:

• nothing whatsoever in the way of 'live' teaching
• not a single call from the school, pastoral or otherwise, until 2 weeks ago when a teacher that DD had never spoken to before called to check in on her (as if she'd be comfortable sharing any concerns with someone she doesn't know from adam)
• virtually no effort at all put into lesson planning (sample maths lesson 'here are the answers to Tuesday's worksheet, go over anything you got wrong')
• in instances where children have fallen behind by a long way e.g. one of DD's friends who didn't submit work for two weeks, no contact from the school at all

Complained to HOY (as have many other parents) and was told they were going to try and do more live teaching but some of the teachers 'aren't comfortable' online.

She likes the school generally. It's viewed very highly in the part of London that we're in, very sought-after etc and before Covid we were fairly happy with it. But what she's getting just isn't anywhere close to proper schooling and the thought of it all dragging on into next year is really dispiriting.

They are now saying they aren't sure KS3 will be back at school in September and I'm thinking of doing whatever it takes to somewhere else for her. We recently moved and are now in the catchment for a local academy that seems (according to other parents) to be handling this stuff better so was wondering about going to ask them to put her on a waiting list for an occasional place (which I'm told do come up). Alternatively, we can afford to pay private school fees but wanted DC to go to state schools. But now I feel we'd be letting DD down if we don't explore other options that are available to us.

I suppose I'm just putting this out there to see if anyone else has been massively disappointed with how their DC's school have handled the past few months and is also considering moving.

Well, I suddenly became super busy yesterday afternoon and wasn't able to keep up with the thread I'd started so, my apologies for that. I'm really grateful to everyone who posted.

A few points to note:

• thank you for the link to 'Oak Academy' which I will definitely be making use of for my kids
• It has been, as I said before, hugely helpful to hear teacher perspectives and it has made me look anew at the provision that DD has had and be more appreciative of the juggling going on behind the scenes
• That said, in the school in question, it is not a large cohort who would not have been able to access live provision but a small cohort and I still don't see the logic in not providing for the majority what cannot be provided for a small percentage because it's deemed unfair. That does not help anyone. Surely the answer is to find ways to support that small percentage better. There are many ways that the school could have done this and haven't.
• But, I also agree that live lessons aren't the gold standard. I'm not after 6 hours of zoom a day but I do feel strongly that teachers could and should be doing more than just posting a link to seneca learning and saying 'complete this lesson' or sending a worksheet and then sending the answer sheet two days later.

I'm sorry if anyone feels this has riled them more than been helpful. the thing I really like about Mumsnet is that, generally, you do get a wide range of perspectives and that is very valuable if you need to step outside your own echo chamber. Thanks again, mumsnetters. And to all the teachers, I hope you have a proper break over the summer.

I do, though, have one more question for posters who feel that I've overly critical of provision: why has DD's form tutor not called once in 3.5 months to check in on her? This is a tutor who has the same form of 30 girls for the next 5 years. I appreciate, of course, that they are busy but surely over this many weeks they could have found the time to pick up the phone to parents and say how is x getting on?

Does he not have the authority to take the decision to call? I just don't get it.

Does he not have the authority to take the decision to call?

No.

And in fact he could be reprimanded by his school for doing so if they have not instructed teachers to do this.

Safeguarding-wise, a male teacher phoning girls from his home on his personal phone without the approval of his school would be definitely an issue.

it is not a large cohort who would not have been able to access live provision but a small cohort

I can’t see how you could possibly know that?

But it could have been delegated to a woman. Also it’s not improper for a male teacher to speak to a girl. They do it every day in school without parents being present. Of course it’s not safeguarding! Safeguarding is not there to stop phone calls. It’s not there to stop legitimate actions. It is there to protect children but authorising a phone call is not a safeguarding issue. Nothing has taken place that’s improper. What a way to treat male teachers! No wonder men don’t enter the teaching profession.

Also it’s not improper for a male teacher to speak to a girl.

Who is talking about improper???

Teachers at school often take precautions when talking to students alone. Doors have windows in them, they may be left propped open. Staff and pupils could walk by at any time. This is to protect the teacher as much as the pupil.

Teachers, in normal circumstances do not call pupils from their own home. They do not, under normal circumstances, call pupils from their own phone.

A teacher who phones another pupil in their home from their home on their own phone should make damned sure that the school know about it and have signed off on it first.

@noblegiraffe but very few teachers or parents have said that's what has been happening. It's just been a long list of reasons why it's so difficult for them. I've been unimpressed with some of the stories I've heard, including some from the school of which I am in a governance role. The teachers there have been largely passive and reactive, not proactive and creative in the face of this challenge. Not helped by the fact it has no HT.

The question asked was can the teacher make the decision for themselves to phone home. The answer is no they can’t, and I explained why.

As it happens I’ve been phoning my tutor group every week from home on my personal phone because my school has instructed me to. If they hadn’t, I wouldn’t.

I also take obvious precautions when doing so.

@noblegiraffe

Does he not have the authority to take the decision to call?

No.

And in fact he could be reprimanded by his school for doing so if they have not instructed teachers to do this.

Safeguarding-wise, a male teacher phoning girls from his home on his personal phone without the approval of his school would be definitely an issue.

This is perhaps one perfect example of why this is so ‘impossible‘ for some schools to think they can deliver a similar service. Another politically correct excuse...quite easily navigated by perhaps most independent schools up and down the country. It’s not rocket science to facilitate reaching out to pupils, and it’s staggering to think this could potentially be used as an excuse. Our daughter has had a minimum one or two weekly calls from her male form tutor, plus many interactive discussions we have overheard with various subject teachers, not to mention male piano, LAMDA tutors etc...yes they have all of course been ‘authorised’...but to counter this as a reason why it’s not so easy for some schools to deliver, seems quite ridiculous.

I said I’m phoning my tutees on my personal mobile from my home. It’s not something I’m 100% comfortable with and it’s not about political correctness.

Some people have literally no idea.

I think a lot of us have quite a decent idea. We see excuse after excuse. Mostly I suspect from schools in areas where DC need teaching and contact more than some others. It really will be a case of the best schools stretching ahead and other DC being sadly let down. It was ever thus.

No, it would seem people don’t.

There’s even a lack of understanding of how little autonomy teachers have.

I work in my daughter’s school on a volunteer basis, and have worked with children through my business...I do know the rules on safeguarding. There are quite a few educated professionals on here, who really do ‘have some clue’...

@fancymcfancypants
I could have written your post completely, we are also in London, and my children's school is the most sort after, people rent houses to get their child in the 0.9 mile "catchment".
The other school in the area which has a poor reputation has done so much more,Zoom lessons.. weekly meetings.
We finally had a phone call from a form tutor on Friday.... this is the first contact we have had, the work if you can call it that is write a story.
If I could change school I would in a flash but can't due to the year they are in.
I wonder if our children attend the same school.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the rules would previously have said ‘no, you definitely can’t phone the kids from your own home on your personal mobile’.

Rules shouldn’t just be ripped up willy nilly because we’re in a global pandemic.

Aside from anything else, sometimes phonecalls home can be deeply unpleasant and having that in your own home without the support network of school around you isn’t something to just shrug off.

What you describe sounds similar what dd has been getting and it's worked great tbh. More than that, which they tried in the first few weeks was just awful and resulted in very stressed dd sitting glued to the lap top all day and into the night. We are in London too. I do think some parents expectations have been ridiculously high tbh.

I work at a private school and we have never had so many enquiries. Numbers are dramatically up for September we have even recruited more staff!
It helps that we have so much space, grounds and facilities plus small class sizes. Although CV19 restrictions have been b tough we have managed and the children have been taught well, to a high standard. Music, sport, drama, art have also been v much on the curriculum.

@noblegiraffe I do hear what you've been saying on a lot of points but I simply don't agree on this. Re safeguarding concerns, when we did finally get a random check-in from the school two weeks ago (as mentioned in my OP), a man DD had never been taught by or spoken to, a head of department, called me and said could he talk to DD. Obviously had she been having any kind of difficulty, she'd have been unlikely to share it with someone she had absolutely no kind of relationship with. Anyway the point is I don't see why her form tutor could have done the same (having first of course got permission from the school - not an insurmountable hurdle presumably). Many, many schools, bigger schools with much bigger challenges, have got around this. It seems really lame that they haven't managed it.

In fact, I've heard safeguarding concerns in relation to all manner of stuff that, as @Mumto2two has said, has been pulled off perfectly fine by other institutions/providers (and I don't just mean private schools). My kids have done a bunch of online music stuff outside of school that, of course, required the providers to adapt their safeguarding policies as everyone is having to do but was still possible and has worked really well.

@Teenangels ah yes, sounds like might well be the same school. What year is your DD in?

I probably should have phrased my initial question: 'would it not have been possible for him to get authorisation?' because I can imagine teachers have to check with the school first but again, not a massive deal surely.

@whattodo2019 yes, I can imagine. Though I imagine a fair few private schools are seeing families having to leave too.

@noblegiraffe

Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the rules would previously have said ‘no, you definitely can’t phone the kids from your own home on your personal mobile’.

Rules shouldn’t just be ripped up willy nilly because we’re in a global pandemic.

Aside from anything else, sometimes phonecalls home can be deeply unpleasant and having that in your own home without the support network of school around you isn’t something to just shrug off.

Nobody is ripping up the rule books here? It’s really not that complicated to facilitate contact between a teacher and their child. Many many schools have done this quite smoothly and without unnecessary fuss.

As for suggesting it might be ‘distressing‘ for a child to have contact from their children while at home...I really don’t know what to say.
It just seems that some schools have literally been able to find more problems than solutions..and many schools like ours, have been great at simply finding the solutions, and delivering a service that completely benefits our child.

I'm not really sure I understand the safeguarding with the phone. You're not calling the student directly, you're calling the parent and asking for the student. It's very rare for them to have house phones and answer directly anyway and even then you ask for the parent first. I'm not really sure what the fuss is. Yes some kids will find phone calls home distressing but that will happen with a lot of things, doesn't mean we shouldn't do them.

The fact some schools feel it's ok to publicly say we've only asked our secondary aged pupils to cook with families is crazy. I think a lot of schools have had the most exhausting and stressful term of their lives but for some kids, this was a whole term of no work, thanks to their school constantly making excuses instead of being creative.

Exactly @mumto2two If most people in their jobs were this creative in saying nope sorry policy says this, then they'd be out of a job very quickly which is exactly why privates have been so great at being creative. They'd be out of a job otherwise!

I don’t know why everyone is talking to me like I’m a moron about phoning home when I’ve said twice now that I’m doing it weekly with my tutor group so clearly know that it’s possible. My point was that teachers shouldn’t be doing it without the instruction of their school because that was the question asked. Should they be doing it if their school instructs them to? Well clearly I am, aren’t I?

Should they have asked the school for permission if they hadn’t been asked to do it? Well you don’t know the individual circumstances or workload of each teacher so I don’t think it’s something you can judge person on. Phoning into the home lives of people you don’t know during a global pandemic when people are really struggling and saying ‘is everything ok?’ Isn’t something to be taken lightly (again I think people are only seeing this from their own view). I’m a maths teacher, dealing with troubled families really isn’t my skill set so I was certainly very nervous with the first set of calls.

Interesting that people are assuming that I meant the phone call from the tutor would be distressing for the child. I, of course, meant distressing for the teacher. It is not unusual for teachers to get chewed out by parents over the phone. It’s also not unusual for teachers to be told something distressing that they might need support from a colleague with.

Completely agree @Mumto2two

IIt just seems that some schools have literally been able to find more problems than solutions..and many schools like ours, have been great at simply finding the solutions, and delivering a service that completely benefits our child.

It's a sad indictment of our school system if teachers are so beaten down that they can't see a way through the challenges and muster the energy to tackle them. I don't really blame the teachers, they were probably battered, disempowered and disenfranchised even before this all started.

@noblegiraffe that really wasn't my intention and I apologize if my post made you angry. Many schools are doing an amazing job and I agree on many of your previous posts. I have worked with teens and I think people who do, have very little in terms of protection against a malicious child or even where there is a situation where you hear something uncomfortable and are not sure how to deal with it. No amount of safeguarding training prepares you for it.
I think this is a much bigger conversation around how and why teachers have become social workers and why social work is not being funded properly. This was a problem before the pandemic but covid has shone a very bright light at it.

My point was more towards schools who are saying sorry computer says no. We've had weekly phone calls with my DDs teacher because she has an EHCP. This happened even through the holidays. They could not have done more to support her and they've done the same for kids on SEN Support. Her tutor called us once and when we told him we're already getting phone calls he didn't call back but calls all his tutees weekly and they have a zoom tutor group every 2 weeks. There is a neighbouring school who has done very little. Is it difference in leadership? Because cohort is similar, similar EHCP numbers etc. I understand, comparing themselves to our kids, why they're angry.
Obviously it's impossible for parents to view the situation from the inside but I think in OPs case, it is quite unfair she hasn't had an interest from the school, especially where you see so many state schools doing a really great job. This isn't attacking her tutor, because clearly from what you've said it's often out of their control, but someone should answer for it.