Applying for medicine with very polarised GCSEs

[Neednewwellies]

I’m not sure where to put this so I’ve put it both here and in further Ed.
DS1 has his heart set on studying medicine. Personally I think he’s extremely well suited to it both academically and in temperament. He’s Y10. He is mildly dyslexic and predicted the following in His GCSEs:
Maths-9
Chemistry-9
Physics-9
Biology-9
Geography-8
RS-8
English Lit-6/7
English Lang-6/7
French-6
He really didn’t want to do a language but it was school rules. He struggles with French and indeed English due to his dyslexia. It also impacts the written element of his humanities subjects too.

So, if he does end up with the predicted 9s for maths and sciences but gets 3 x 6s for English and French, will that preclude him applying for medicine? He is looking at 4 Alevels in maths, chemistry, physics and biology. His current teachers are as sure as they can be that he is A/A (but more likely A) in each.

Any advice on what he should do? Will his results mean he will be unlikely to secure a place to study medicine or do some universities look at the skew towards the required subjects and his predicted Alevels?

Sure someone more knowledgeable will come along in a bit, but here's my two pence worth.

I think it will be an uphill struggle. I used to teach in a school that had a huge number of sixth formers applying for medicine (cultural bias & parental pressure) and very few got in. The ones with borderline grades often didn't even get an interview. Many with perfect grades (all A and A at GCSE, all A or A predicted at a level) didn't get past the interview stage. It is really, really competitive.

Many of those who didn't get in to a medicine course went off to do Biological Sciences degrees with the intention of switching across to medicine after the first year. Some managed to do this, but not most.

He will need to try to get some work experience. Obviously with Corona this is a non starter right now but he will need to be on it straight away if it becomes possible again. Any kind of medical or care setting, for as long as possible, not just a week's stint. If you have any connections to someone in medicine, you need to use them.

Finally, be realistic about which unis to apply to. Get him doing some research about which universities are more likely to take him (the student room website would be a good place to start), find the phone number for the relevant admissions department, and get him to call them to discuss it. Him, not you! Does he have any adjustments in school / for exams for his dyslexia? (Extra time etc.) It would be worth discussing this with the university admissions people as well.

There are various books about how to do well in the uni interviews for medicine, if he goes ahead with an application make sure you get a couple.

Thank you @SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito. This is my worry. The irony is that we have never encouraged him towards medicine as it’s the one subject that I always felt you need to have an almost visceral love for rather than it ever be suggested either at home or by teachers. This has all come from him. His general knowledge and scientific knowledge is outstanding. On top of that he’s the most compassionate person you could meet (unlike his brother who’s the year below but all about what job will will earn him most money). No contacts but we’ll try and arrange something. He’d actually enjoy that so it wouldn’t be lip service.

Hi, OP! I'm currently studying graduate medicine so will try and advise a little, but won't claim to be an expert. There are a couple of exceptions, but I think most medical schools wouldn't rule someone out based on those GCSEs. The most important thing now is for him to hit the necessary A level grades and do well in the BMAT/UKCAT.

Best of luck to him, studying medicine is an incredible opportunity!

Definitely worth going for imo. Medicine places have been available through clearing in the last couple of years. If he secures 8/9 in all the science and maths I can't see there being an issue particularly. My DS just finished yr13 and one of his year has got an offer at Cambs to study Physics with a 5 in English. In DDs year group (she just finished 1st year at uni) they has one accepted for medicine - he missed his grades but went to his back of medicinal chemistry (if I remember correctly he got ABB in the end) So even if he applies for medicine he'll be encouraged to have a non medicine back up course. For medicine there are also special tests at most unis now, which test for genera knowledge and the right sort of thinking skills they're looking for. So there are lots of hurdles but also chances to understand whether it's actually he right thing to apply for BEFORE he actually has to apply & commit his uni choices to medicine.

He could always apply again after his a levels if he isn’t successful before the results and take a gap year? (If you see what I mean?)

I have two friends who did a science degree first and then medicine after as they were unsuccessful applying for medicine the first time around. (But that was back in the late 90s / early 2000s when university wasn’t so expensive!)

Thanks everyone! Yes, with such good predicted Alevel results it may be worth him applying after he receives these (assuming he gets them) He could then use the year to get as much voluntary work in as possible. Something to think about.

I think you need to check with each medical school to see what their ranking criteria is. I went to a ucas talk for one of my dc and the speaker from I think Nottingham uni said that for medicine the assigned points for A and A* at gcse (now 7/8/9 I assume) and only if you scored above a certain threshold would they then go on and look at the next steps. It was just a way of limiting the number of applications they had to spend lots of time on. They said other places used different things as the first criteria so were more suitable for people with less than perfect gcse grades.

I suspect (hope) that universities will give more leeway on GCSEs this year because they are predictions rather than actual results. I wouldn't have thought that would rule him out anyway, but especially this year.

He can do things that will help him, experience if possible, reading round etc. For example I know there are first aid courses you can do on line currently. That's not the same as face to face contact, but showing that he's done something while being stuck at home would be a positive.

Do be aware that A-levels are a different kettle of fish, though. I'm surprised that teachers are willing to stick their necks out at this point and say he should get top grades. I've one at uni and we did know people who were top end sailing at GCSE who just never made the step up in A-levels, especially chemistry, but also maths.

Thanks @Witchend. I think it’s because he’s top end of 9s. His maths and science scores are almost always 97%+.

Just looked into an online first aid course too, thanks. We all do keep up to date with these anyway due to DD but worth another one.

Have a look on the Higher Education board rather than Further Education, there are a couple of threads going on there with good links. The unis all prioritise on different aspects so you just need to apply accordingly . Good luck to him

There’s no reason why those grades should stop him applying for medicine. I’ve had candidates with lower average point score at gcse get places. It would probably be sensible to look at the weighting given to each element of the application by the medical schools he is interested in and focus on those who don’t as much weight on GCSEs but if he has a good enough UCAT score (the medical entrance exam you sit July/August end of yr12) he’ll be fine. This might set his mind at rest: www.themedicportal.com/application-guide/choosing-a-medical-school/gcse-requirements-for-medicine/

He can do 4 A levels if he really wants to but it’s more important to get 3 very high grades (Plus extra-curricular for medicine) than 4 slightly less good grades. Also, don’t worry too much about work experience. Volunteering with children, the elderly, as a befriender in your local hospital etc all good. All the universities now say that they are more interested in the quality of your reflection on what you’ve read/seen/done than on an impressive list of contacts allowing you access to hospitals.

Not the question that OP is asking, but I'm very surprised that OP's teachers are predicting future A Level results in Year 10!! Surely they can't tell at this point and OP should take this with a pinch of salt?

sounds like he is perfect for medicine. If he gets top A level grades I cannot see why not (family of medics here all who were weaker in English)

Those GCSEs would not hold him back at the majority of medical schools. The main thing when applying for medicine is to be strategic and apply to the medical schools which value your strengths.

Some are not worth considering with the GCSE grades you have mentioned as they score GCSEs when shortlisting (Cardiff, Oxford, Leeds, Edinburgh would be out and he would have to be careful about Birmingham, Nottingham, Lincoln, Leicester).

Cambridge look holistically at an application and interview the majority of Home applicants. GCSE results are a minor factor.

Many just require applicants to meet the entry requirements (Sheffield 5 x 7+, Manchester 7 x 7+, St Andrews) then select for interview on UKCAT (Clinical Aptitude Test). Some just require you to have English and Maths, but a thing to be aware of is that most require 6 in English, so if that grade is marginal he should make it as secure as possible.

In summary, he has loads of options, but will need to be strategic!

See www.medschools.ac.uk/media/2701/msc-entry-requirements-for-uk-medical-schools-2021.pdf

@behindthescenes, thank you very much. I will also talk to him about doing 3 Alevels instead of 4. I presume it should be physics he drops? That would see him take maths, chemistry and biology. I guess that’s the standard med student Alevel choice.
@LoveBlackpool, thank you for the vote of confidence. He seems very passionate about it but has been so worried that it’s unobtainable due to his weakness in English.
@Monkey2001, thanks. Great info. I’ll encourage him to research and pick wisely.
@RedskyAtnight, obviously he’s a bit away but he’s the child who got 100% in SATs and throughout senior school so far has dropped just 1 or 2 marks in maths/physics/chemistry and never below 90% in Biology. He’s top 2 or 3 in his year group for maths and sciences. So whilst it’s still a bit away and they wouldn’t stake it formally, they’re saying they have full confidence that he’ll achieve that based on similarly achieving students in the past. But of course we’ll need to wait and be sure those 9s materialise on the day.

The subject he drops depends on where he wants to go. DS1 did 3 sciences and maths in Y12, did AS in Biology and Physics as he had not decided which to drop (school only let them do 3). As none of the ones he wanted to apply to required Biology if you had chem and maths, he decided to drop Biology. He did not get in for a 2019 start, but that was because he was shy and not a natural at interviews, not doing Bio made no difference. Got 3 offers this year. Subject requirements are in the document I linked above.

If your son was inclined to get a Saturday job, I have observed that the DCs who have worked and interacted with the public more tend to do better in interviews as they are used to talking to adults.

Whilst work experience is going to be difficult to do at the moment he could engage in some MOOC online course to boost his application they are free online mini courses offered by universities here and abroad

Just for info, DS is a 5th year medical student and says his biology A level has been the most useful to him so far more so than Chemistry or Maths.

He is only year 10! Good to be looking ahead though.

Plenty of time to increase his grades for English Lit/Lang. There are lots of videos on YouTube to help with English GCSE, he has the whole of this summer to pull those grades up and his French, there are apps he can do every day such as Duolingo or Memorise (usually set up by the school as a GCSE pack) that may help him.

For future ref, only 3 A levels are needed, better to ace those than risk a slightly lower grade on a 4th. Most 4th A level subjects are Further Maths usually alongside Maths. Oxbridge only require 3 A levels.

Look at the medical schools and see what they want A level wise and GCSE.

Yes if he drops one it should be physics. You can get into a number of medical schools without biology but it does reduce your choice a bit. It’s also probably the best indicator of how he’ll find studying for medicine exams.

But as the pp says, now I’ve read properly and realised he’s year 10, you’ve got lots of time! And he can almost certainly increase his non-science grades significantly by next summer if he puts his mind to it. Focus on that for now and then he can start all the medic extra-curricular stuff once his GCSEs are out of the way

Thanks. It’s really his dyslexia that’s holding back his English. It’s always made him reluctant to read and his spelling is utterly shocking.

As others have said, for A levels, dropping Biology narrows your options, but we have 2 friends with undiagnosed dyslexia who

.... Struggled with A level Biology. Just something to look out for.