London parents, did you know about public transport changes?

[SilverDragonfly1]

If so, apologies for bringing it up again but I haven't noticed it being discussed here.

One of the bailout conditions for TfL is to stop allowing children free travel on buses, meaning you may need to add bus fares into your budget next term. This is temporary, but I can't find any indication of how temporary. I have to admit, free travel was what allowed us to keep above water as a family when my son went to secondary- if it hadn't been there, his first choice school would have really impacted our budget.

If anyone has better info about the decision than me (not hard really), please share.

[PeppermintSoda]

What is your point about brexit voters and bus supply?

[OnlyFoolsnMothers]

I don’t think London is special- I perfectly understand your venom for such decisions but like I said all this does is disadvantage children, many of whom are living in poverty or will be pushed into poverty. Your sympathy isn’t for “London”- whatever that covers- it’s for children.

[cakeisalwaystheanswer]

I am not surprised that over 60s in your area also benefit from free travel ListeningQuietly but it very wrong that they do. I have checked the London councils website and the London Freedom Pass is partly funded by TFL themselves, 5%, mainly funded by London local authorities and then there is a govt grant which only covers part of the cost.

I don't think London is a special case but I do think the over 60s have unnecessarily been made into a special case. We have an ageing population so we are going to be giving an increasing percentage of the population non-means-tested free travel and the burden to pay for this will fall on the younger generations.

And I do appreciate the problems with rural travel, DH comes from the back of beyond in Scotland and there's one bus a day!

[OnlyFoolsnMothers]

I would remove the freedom pass for over 60s is they need to make cuts!

[cakeisalwaystheanswer]

And thinking about it, TFL makes money by selling tickets. They are using the money they are now charging children to ride on buses to subsidise the Freedom Passes for the over 60s. When I was young my grandparents used to give me money but now granchildren are expected to subsidise their grandparents travelcards.

[Malmontar]

@ListeningQuietly please make your own thread about your anger as to your local bus provision. If you want to start that argument, I'll happily pay a fiver every day for my kid to get to school if you also give me your house prices, your council tax rate, your car insurance premium, your lack of ULEZ tax and a ton of other things! And before you start, no it's really not that easy to move out of London and no, I probably don't earn more than you!
I tried to be nice but you're being outright horrid and passive aggressive. I feel bad your kids have to pay, but take that up with your MP, not a thread informing LONDON PARENTS of this stupid new idea.
Goodbye, enjoy your lovely fresh air and low car insurance, wherever you're from.

[PeppermintSoda]

Petition against this here
www.change.org/p/transport-for-london-stop-tfl-from-removing-free-travel-for-under-18s?

[IHateCoronavirus]

I think all travel on public transport for children going to and from school should be free nationwide. Bus fare, for school, costs us £30 per week.

[qweryuiop]

Do you have to pay for London buses at all at the moment? I assumed that the "no need to tap in" meant they were free by default.

It does seem wrong to charge children suddenly, especially as so many get daily buses to and from school, and parents will have chosen the school based on free travel.

[mopsue]

I think it's outrageous & they really need to look at the freedom pass.

[Breadandroses1]

@queryuiop not at the moment, although that's a very temporary measure and is also supposed to change. Given the buses are still fairly empty I don't think they'll be losing a lot of revenue and I haven't really seen kids on the bus at all.

To be clear- buses and trams are free for all kids, trains and tubes are free for U11s with a zip card.

Another thing to remember is that low bus fares are partially offset by massive tube and train fares- my travelcard costs nearly 2k a year from zone 4, so we already pay 4k as a household annually. We already have the most expensive public transport system in Europe for a capital city (maybe the world). As Mayor, Johnson decided TFL should become entirely self financing, which no other capital city does.

I'm from a rural area and the buses are awful and runiously expensive. They're mostly used by over -66s who get free travel. But most people have cars, usually multiple per household, and the financial cost of ownership is much cheaper (environmental cost remains high). It's not the same.

I know there are heads and MATs really concerned about potential impacts on attendance of vulnerable kids and lobbying DFE. Some Boroughs are massive- mine is huge and you can easily be allocated a school at the opposite end, 10 or so miles away.

[InMySpareTime]

Over 60s are taking a small hit, freedom passes will only be valid off-peak (so, same as the rest of the country).
My DM was kicking off about it. Evidently her need to travel round London free in rush hour is more important than children getting to school. Her crusade didn't get very far, as everyone outside London on her social media thought it should have always been off peak travel anyway.

[PeppermintSoda]

Pensioners are less likely to have had their income affected by Corona than working age and don't have kids to support and have often paid off mortgages. Their disposable income has overtaken working age in the last few years. I guess the tories want to keep their vote which is why they never get shafted by cuts in the way young people do.

[OnlyFoolsnMothers]

It’s always easy to go after children and families- it’s easy because the media and government have spent years hammering the idea that if you struggle financially then it’s your fault and you shouldn’t have had children.

[cakeisalwaystheanswer]

It is much easier to pass increases on to children because they have no votes themselves and their parents are of working age and are also raising a family so they have limited free time. Retired people have endless time and they use it to put pressure on govts and councils to make sure they keep any perks they consider themselves to be entitled to. This has to stop. As I posted earlier we have an ageing population, every year there will be fewer younger people to pass the cost of these perks on to and travel costs are spiralling out of control.

Being old does not make someone poor. My generation who are about to come into these perks are the baby boomers, we have been given too much already and it needs to stop. For example child benefit was only removed a few years ago and my family received thousands of pounds over the years that younger families earning a lot less will never see.

[AveEldon]

content.tfl.gov.uk/board-20200602-agenda-and-papers-supplentary.pdf

This contains two references to the Under 18 free travel suspension

• it's not clear if it will be temporary or not

[Lordfrontpaw]

Isn’t it under 16 anyway? Either way - the benefit has been there and now it’s being taken away. If they take it away I can’t see them bringing it back.

I do think that the pensioners card (as it used to be on the old days) should be either a discount fee or not in rush hour.

[AveEldon]

No, it's under 18, there is a concession for 16-18 year olds in full time education

[Witchend]

But we've all seen how, pre-COVID, pupils would ram themselves on buses to go only a stop or two. That simply must not happen.

Paying makes no difference to that. Our bus fares are ridiculous (it costs me more to get a return to town-a journey of 7 minutes on the bus) than it does to park for 4 hours. Children are 2/3 fare.

But when I got the bus I was always surprised at the number of children who got the bus (and even waited for the next bus which was half an hour later) to go 3 stops. Granted it was up a hill, but still only took me 15 minutes to walk, pushing a buggy and with a toddler.
And you could always tell by the state of the bus if it had done a school pick up. They left litter all over the bus.

[Lordfrontpaw]

Ah just spotted it’s half price for 16-18 but not sure if that’s still the case now. DH has a zip than goes up to 15.

[OnlyFoolsnMothers]

But we've all seen how, pre-COVID, pupils would ram themselves on buses to go only a stop or two. That simply must not happen my nephews bus is 3 stops uphill- he has every right to use the bus- he gets no locker at school and carries a load of books and kit every day. Why should be trudge up hill to give adults more room.

[Lordfrontpaw]

Ds has a huge bag and sports kit to lug. It’s about 2.5 miles and if he can walk he does.

[Fiddlersgreen]

@Lordfrontpaw

Ah just spotted it’s half price for 16-18 but not sure if that’s still the case now. DH has a zip than goes up to 15.

Buses are free on the 16-18 zip card if you live in London

[Pelleas]

All public transport concessions, regardless of age or location, should be means-tested on the basis of household income.

[OnlyFoolsnMothers]

Pelleas yes because look at the sterling job they made of child benefit- the ludicrous limits of individual vs house hold income.
Anyway all children should be treated fairly- free travel enables them to get to school.