Can anyone convince my year 12 dd to drop a subject?

[Emma498]

Dd is in year 12 and hoping to study medicine- she’s doing biology, chemistry, maths and history and enjoys all 4 subjects and is adamant she doesn’t want to drop one. She’s always been a high achiever and I think she just cannot imagine doing less than excellently academically so anyone saying you ‘will spread yourself too thin with 4’ falls on deaf ears with her- I guess it’s arrogance. She says that she has done 4 this year doing really well in her mocks, still going out with friends very regularly and maintaining a part time job and volunteering and she’s right. She also says that she does not want a whole years worth of work to go down the drain. However, I hear that the STEM subjects have a big step up from lower to upper sixth and so I would like her to drop one to ensure she does as well as she needs to do for med offers as well as conserving her mental health. Can anyone with experience write a post that I could show her to try to persuade her?

Have actually found an almost exact copy of this thread with someone else but am hoping someone responding to her specific scenario may help.

If she does decide to drop one, then history is the one. Typically medicine likes biology,chemistry and the either physics or maths. I did zoology and then veterinary medicine and did Bio, Chem and physics in 1984. Maybe things have changed though...

What do her lecturers think? Some students are able to do 4 and still get high grades. What uni's is she thinking of applying to and what are their requirements?

What are her predictions (she may need to wait until schools are open again to do practise exams to get properly up to date ones)? 3 A* grades alongside work experience and/or volunteering would look better than 4 A/B grades. Plus she needs to remember she'll have to do the bmat for many medical schools so that's another exam to prepare for whilst getting back into school habits again when they reopen.

Having said that, talk/email her teachers and tutors - if she can get 4 top grades, and wants to, maybe she should try for that.

I have been told that many unis will only take the top 3 A level marks so a 4th could be superfluous. Have a look on UCAS?

We’ve only spoken to her biology teacher in passing at parents evening who said they think she could get top grades in all 4.
Her predictions are likely to be A*s but as the content volume and difficulty increases next year I worry that this won’t be maintained.
Yes unis do only look at top 3 grades- dd’s argument against this is twofold in that she says medicine is so competitive that every applicant will have 3A predictions plus work experience so the extra A level in a more unexpected subject would give her an edge as well as the extra A level being an almost security blanket I’m giving her another chance for the high offer grades. I’m telling her that spreading herself between the 4 subjects will reduce her chances of getting the As she could get with 3 subjects

If she's been predicted 4 A*s then it sounds as though she's one of the (very few) who really can cope with it - and is probably well suited to medicine.

Until and unless her grades start to suffer then I'd let her keep going. She can drop History surely at pretty much any point until just before exams are taken. If she's still able to go out then for her the choice may be to go out less if necessary rather than drop a subject?

I did 4 plus the WBQ, it was before the days of A* but I got 3As, 1B and the WBQ which supposedly was equivalent of an A. So some people can do it. Let her decide for herself.

Also remember if any teen needs convincing to do something it's probably not worth you wasting your breath! It's surprising how many other people influence your teens that you are probably not aware of.

Im not sure why she would need to drop one - about 90% of my yeargroup did 4 subjects at A Level. It's not uncommon, and there isn't a workload increase from yr12 to yr13, so if she's managing now i don't see why she wouldnt manage next year. For medicine, she should really do 4. Don't hold her back.

Surely she can decide this for herself? If she's very bright then she might not find A-levels that challenging and will be more than capable of managing all four.

Has she started preparing for the UCAT? If so how is she finding it? Since she isn't taking maths she may need more preparation for the quantitive elements than some other candidates (doing 3 sciences and maths is fairly common for prospective medical students).

By the end of Y12 I find most high acheiving students are actually way more aware of what they need to do and are capable of academically than their parents. In just over a year they're off at university without their parents to offer advise so it's absolutely right that they're almost independent at this stage.

I guess maybe I am underestimating her- I’ve just heard since a level reforms that the advice is always to stick with 3.
She hasn’t started to prepare for UCAT as has been advised by people in the year above who did very well to start preparing around 2 months before and dates are up in the air anyway at the moment. She is doing maths :)

I did 6 AS levels and 5 A levels (Maths, French, English, General Studies and Spanish where I did AS and A level in one year).

I got 4 As at A Level in the end (and a B in the AS that I dropped). This was a while ago (before A* was introduced), but it set me in good stead for a Maths and French degree, and then studying for professional qualifications when working.

If she's bright and enjoys all the subject, then it is certainly doable. And an essay topic might prove light relief from other science-y topics (not that it's easier, just that it's a differently of using your brain and a change is as good as a break!)

Im not sure why she would need to drop one - about 90% of my yeargroup did 4 subjects at A Level. It's not uncommon, and there isn't a workload increase from yr12 to yr13

How long ago was this SomeoneElseEntirelyNow? Since the A level reforms most A level students take 3 subjects, unless the fourth one is further maths or they really are exceptional students.

I did 6 AS levels and 5 A levels (Maths, French, English, General Studies and Spanish where I did AS and A level in one year).

A level reforms means that all subjects are linear SuperrHann. Basically you sat the equivalent of 6 half A levels at the end of year 12, and 5 half A levels plus a whole A level at the end of year 13. Which is an excellent achievement, but not the same as sitting 6 whole A levels at the end of year 13.

OP if your daughter is achieving the highest grades with 4 subjects there is no reason why she should drop a subject. Medical schools only ask for three subjects though. I would take the advice from people who took A levels when AS levels were still being taken with a pinch of salt because since the reforms all A levels are linear. They sit the entire contents of two years work at the end of year 13, not half at the end of year 12 and half at the end of year 13.

Interestingly, DD is just about to complete her first year of a biomedical science degree. She has several friends studying medicine, and she has said that in the first year her course has been more demanding and gone into more depth per topic than that of the medical students.

Sorry OP misread your post thought she was doing 3 sciences. I think she should be fine - she and her teachers will be much more well aware of what she's capable of than you (not meant to sound offensive to you).

I would start revising for UCAT over the summer holiday regardless of when the exams turn out to be. She may find she does very well very quickly in which case she'll need to do a little bit of practise maybe once a week then step up in the few weeks befoe the exam, some students find there's one area they're weaker on and it's helpful to have longer to prepare for that.

Regardless she needs to be making these decisions for herself - seeking advice from teachers and other students as needed. There have been an increasing issue in universities of students arriving without having learned to be responsible for their own learning. They're used to parents and teachers prodding them into working hard enough and making sensible decisions. It sounds like your DD doesn't have this issue and is taking control of her own learning - good for her!

The teachers' predictions will take into account any increase in difficulty and/or intensity in year 13.

She's doing other things outside school that she can ease back on if she's finding everything a bit much. There's also the possibility of easing back on history once the offers are in, if they are just based on the science A-levels. (Once I got my uni offers, I told the teacher of my fourth subject that it wasn't part of any offer and so it would be bottom priority from then on. I didn't drop it, but I didn't do all the homework essays. The teacher was fine with that, and in fact I got a top grade anyway.)

@lanthanum also has a really good point - when it comes to revision time she can always focus on her 3 main subjects which are likely to make the basis of her offers.

Showed this to my dd and she gave me a very melodramatic ‘even strangers on Mumsnet believe in me more than you’ followed by an I told you so look

I also don't understand why you want her to drop one. Surely it's her decision?

Is it normal to take 4 x A-levels at her school, or is she the exception?

marginalgain very very few take 4

If she thinks she will be fine and is being predicted 4 xA* let her do it. With the social distancing etc and possible lack of voluntary positions for medic pupils then it may set her apart from other candidates.

Her UCAS application does not need to be in until 15 October so she can decide at that point. She can even drop one later if she wants although she will need to notify unis that she has applied to at that point that she has if she does even if offer made on a 3 A level basis. I know quite a few medics and scientists who read history as a 4th as it was of interest to them. Also the skills they get from studying history stands them in good stead for report writing.

Also the skills they get from studying history stands them in good stead for report writing.

Very true. When DD was considering medicine one of the admissions tutors actually said that they favoured medical students who had a humanities subject as a third or fourth A level as it showed a breadth of education.

My teachers talked me out of taking four (linear) A levels and it is a genuine regret of mine.

She sounds grand. Medics still need to write essays and history is good training.