Dr challoners headteacher

[Najaf]

Does anyone on here have any feedback on the new headteacher in the admissions process? I supplied evidence of address ( but late) but he's having none of it to consider for admissions- he's saying I have to go to appeals

Apologies if I have made an error regarding the boarding place and timings at RGS. Our local state boarding schools make their offers on the same day as non boarding schools.

You own another property within 20 miles of the school. That is the address that Challoners will use and this is very clearly stated in their admissions policy. It makes no difference whether or not it is tenanted and again this is clearly stated in their admissions policy.

It is clear the admissions policy has been followed correctly and you have not been offered a place accordingly.

Your new address is therefore wholly irrelevant and you would not win an appeal based on that alone. The only way you could win would be to prove that the benefit to your son in going there outweighs the downsides to the school in accepting him.

@Zodlebud please view your "impossibility " below. It is normal procedure for boarding places to be handed out earlier than day places. Please don't state things as fact And "impossible" if you are not sure.

I appreciate @prh47bridge For replying to the thread.

You need to understand that I have just been given these decisions 2 days before the second round of allocations. Emotions are still running high as most clerks will request any information required. . It's not about sounding pompous. I am just very emotive about this because it has been done in the eleventh hour. I feel it is unfair to not rectify a mistake on a form because if it was the other way round and the school was to make an offer and then they found out the address was incorrect, they would change the decision at the time.

Evidence had been provided late because I had not been asked to supply any further evidence relating to an old address. The evidence I had supplied related to my current csp residence of 4 years.

@Zodlebud regarding owning another property within 20 miles

b) If a parent of the applicant student still owns a property within 20 miles of the school which has been the main family home more recently than September 1st 2016 (ie 4 years before the proposed date of admission), a property closer to the school will not be accepted as the basis for a legitimate residence qualification even if the former property is leased to a third party. For the purposes of this policy a parent of an applicant is defined as a parent with whom the applicant student resides for at least two nights of the school week (Sunday to Thursday inclusive).

This is where the dates are critical. I moved out of the property and into csp in August 1st 2016 ( evidence and utility bills supplied). The old property was exchanged with tenants in December 2016 and this was the date I wrote on the form.

Hence I just cannot understand why evidence couldn't be considered.

What I am trying to say is that it is your mistake that has led to this, not a problem with the head or the admissions code. You must admit it looks terribly suspicious that you are trying to change a date that you submitted to one that conveniently matches the admissions criteria. The school has not made any error.

Based on the information you provided you owned another property within 20 miles of the school but did not meet the 4 year cut off based on the date you provided. How is that the fault of anyone other than yourself, and on what grounds are you appealing, other than you made a mistake?

An admissions panel will also wonder why all of a sudden you miraculously remembered that you didn’t move in December but actually in August - exactly one month before you needed to.

Dr Challoners is one of the most oversubscribed schools in the county. Why would they offer your son a place when they are already full to the seams and have followed the admissions code correctly? Saying that you made a mistake, decided to not fill in the SIF despite being emailed to remind you do to it and are now changing your dates to fit the admissions code really doesn’t look great for your case.

As an aside, we were also offered our third choice grammar. I wasn’t very happy initially but it’s outside my control and we were given a grammar place. Trying to fight something just on the basis of personal preference was not going to be good for either us as parents or my child.

The crux is that you should have provided all the correct information and evidence when they requested it. You did not do this.

Trying to then provide it later after the horse has bolted seems futile.

The Head can be on the admissions committee. It just can't be left solely for the Head to decide.

Tbh if you only had tenants from December 2016 the LA may well use that date regardless of whether your family was resident elsewhere beforehand. If you accepted RGS you should have withdrawn your application for other schools at the same time.

@LIZS that is incorrect. The LA will use the date that you cease using the address as a family home And when you move into a new home.

But can you evidence this, particularly in the light of your error? You effectively had 2 local addresses for 3 months, over the critical period for the application. Did you decline RGS, if so when?

@Zodlebud I agree i made a mistake. I agree there are parents trying to deceive. I had no idea about the 4 year rule. To me it was just another form that I was filling. I moved into the area not even knowing about the grammar schools, nor that my sons were even bright enough to get in!
if you look at the attached Sif form it states that "the school may require additional information if there are reasons for casting doubt on the accuracy or completeness if an application".

So Let's turn this around. If someone was to write that they moved into csp in July2019. The school see a discrepancy between the forms in February 2020. They can request further information and withdraw the place at this stage. Hence my question is why can they not address evidence in the same way? It's all part of a fair admissions process. I don't see why parents should not be alerted as part of a transparent process. Had I had been told straight away that the uxbridge address would have been used I'd have supplied the evidence of the old address instead of my current address.

Apologies for any spelling errors- covid19 vs trying to take care of 3 monkeys at the same time! Ugh! 🤦‍♀️🐒 🐒 🐒

On your other thread you want the late evidence of your address to override your error. Unfortunately that is not the case, the LA allocated places based on the information available at the time of application. Are your Dses (you seem to have two seeking places) on the waiting list? If you blame the head (potentially unreasonably) why would you still want them to attend his school?

@LIZS yes the evidence provided proved I moved into the new property in August complete with tenancy agreement, utility bill and council tax bill. I still owned the other property but it is the council tax bill which proves living status. I think that is why I feel my application was dismissed to appeal unfairly.

You’ve won in the high court 4 times. Crikey. You must have had better representation there than your educational solicitor who could only tell you it “didn’t seem right”.

Is that you, Big Steph?

Think you've highlighted the wrong section. Your places were refused under b). You have a property with 20 miles, further away than your current address, which has been leased to a third party but that you still own.

@FamilyOfAliens . yes. They did. Once they looked into the case, they said that any mistakes on a supplementary form Should be allowed to be rectified especially if evidence can be supplied to back it up. In my experience that has always been the case in non- admissions related forms.

@LIZS

The residency rule has been covered earlier in the post where I moved out BEFORE sept 1st 2016 according to evidence but that was not written in my Sif form. Hence this undertaking is the reason why the school refused my Current address of 4 years.

The part I highlighted is where I ask why additional evidence should not be allowed when the school can request evidence if they suspect the application is not complete or accurate? That is the crux of my issue.

Thanks for all your replies

The four year rule is clearly stated in the admissions criteria. It has been made publicly available. It is your responsibility to check it. You did not.

You were asked to provide the SIF which would have highlighted this. You did not.

Then asking the admissions board to take into account information at a later date when they had given you the opportunity to do so earlier, and even reminded you to do so is what goes against you I’m afraid. The Bucks website also tells you to read the admissions policy for each school you are applying to. They cannot make people read stuff - you had plenty of reminders to make sure you had.

I really do feel for you as it sounds like if everything is above board and if you had provided the information when asked then your son would have a place.

Your anger should, however, be with yourself and not admissions, the head or anyone else. We all make mistakes and unfortunately this one has had consequences that affect your son.

You need to look at an admissions panel likely response to “I made a mistake, I didn’t read the admissions policy, I didn’t fill in the SIF when asked, I provided the wrong date, but now I want to give you all the information I should have done when you asked for it originally and expect a school place for my son.” When everybody else given a place in similar circumstances obviously did manage to do this. Why should you get special treatment and different rules to everyone else?

I honestly don’t want to seem confrontational - we all want our first choice schools for our children. It’s an incredibly emotional time. Nobody would blame you for trying at appeal. Just be realistic that it doesn’t look good.

Did both ds pass 11+ well enough to qualify for DCS? I'm still unclear whether you did submit the SIF on time or even at all?

The solicitor was actually excellent and very reasonable in cost. That was the initial advice. I normally wouldn't get a solicitor in these type of cases but I was unwell and I couldn't go through all the evidence in the timeframe given.

After looking into the case, she constructed some very good letters and I would say it formed a good backbone argument.

I won the other cases because factual evidence and good arguments will always win over the judge. That was a completely different matter and I have an interest in compliance/law in general.

@LIZS

Yes both boys passed the scores were 135 and 121
Yes Sif forms were filled and submitted in time

@Zodlebud

Believe me the anger is directed at myself first and foremost!

I just don't understand why a mistake is not allowed to be rectified. Everyone makes mistakes 🤷🏻‍♀️

Of course people make mistakes. But if the school is full then they won’t offer places on that basis, harsh as it may seem.

I just don't understand why a mistake is not allowed to be rectified

It is but you were too late rectifying it for the initial admissions. They should be taking the new information into account for the waiting list so you should be at or near the head of the list.

You can’t rectify it because they have already allocated the places. They can’t ask other children to leave the school because you need the places.

I know some who forgot to apply for a primary school place as she just forgot (third child) and was completely bemused when she didn’t get the email on allocations day along with everyone else. It was a complete mistake but the LEA can’t just write to Jane’s mother saying ‘actually Jane wouldn’t have got a place if Leo’s mother had sent her form in because Leo would have got it. So we are giving it to Leo now.’

I don’t understand why you don’t understand.

There are always places allocated later through appeal for DCGS. Places are not accepted or rejected later because parents move for work (often internationally - it is a very mobile population). Some decide to take a private school place instead. Calm yourself and be ready for the appeal.