Independent school fees and Coronavirus

[Creamegg11]

Our prep school closed on Tuesday due to the Coronavirus situation and the school has given the children some work and also some online learning via an App to do at home.

A parent on WhatsApp mentioned whether parents will get some refund on school fees especially as we don’t know when the children will return. I suppose no one predicted this was going to happen and it’s not the school’s fault but it had me thinking.

I think that as parents we will have to take a slightly longer term view and also be a bit pragmatic in our thinking.

I'd imagine schools are shitting themselves about the fees at the moment and burdars are rapidly calculating various scenarios.

If we withhold fees, some schools might have to lay some teachers off or send them off on furlough. This means they cannot work at all. Lots of staff are probably already ill or will become ill, so exactly what impact will that have on the online teaching experience our children receive.

If we withhold fees, some smaller schools might go under and there won't be a school in September or in January. Other schools might struggle on but run bigger classes or have less resources meaning the future quality of the education we pay for isn't as good.

I agree that it's hard to pay for something which isn't quite what we signed up for. We've talked about it and agreed that we will pay (haven't had the bill yet ) as we want the school to be there as close as it can be to how it was when we left it, when our kids return. We can afford to pay. We would rather not pay £7k for a term of online learning, but we know the school needs to pay its teachers and we expect they will be telling us how they are saving on costs where they can.

If we couldn't afford to pay (as opposed to not wanting to pay) we would approach the school for a temporary bursary or some kind of payment plan. We know they do that for families in hardship. I would expect them to be sympathetic to that request and that they will expect more requests for that. I would think they can cope with that, especially if people will pay when they can. I think it would be much harder to deal with people who could afford to pay just refusing.

I agree that the way schools phrase their fee letters is important at this point. Being pompous or demanding doesn't help and acknowledging the difficulty does. However, I expect quite a lot of schools will find their letters annoy parents in the circumstances. The Q is whether people then really feel they shouldn't pay.

And personally, I think we have to give them a bit more time to get the home learning thing sorted out. Just 8 days ago, the children were in school having normal lessons. 2 days later a new regime had started. It's hardly surprising if it's not instantly perfect is it? I'm prepared to bear with them a bit and give them the benefit of the doubt for a while and try and take a longer term view. If I'd lost my job I might feel a bit differently though.

@WombatChocolate that is such a sensible post and certainly the approach we are hoping most of our parents take. If you can pay then please do so so that there is a school for your child to return to in September. If you can't pay due to loss of income then speak to the Bursar as one would anyway. Ours is planning to be as flexible as possible.

Absolutely agree with Wombat's post.
A longer term view is necessary.
👍

I also wholeheartedly agree with wombat

Our youngest child is in U6. As far as I can see there is nothing planned for summer term beyond the 'do some moocs, get the reading list for your potential uni course' .
Of course teachers will be involved in the grade assessment process, but other than that we will really be getting nothing for our summer term fees.
I presume we will just have to suck it up - even though DH's business has more than halved in revenue as a result of the crisis (and we are not entitled to anything from the government).

We're not super-wealthy, so we will inevitably end up making cuts from somewhere else - holidays, cars, house repairs etc. But I know many are much worse off, so I won't complain.

We’ve received an invoice for full summer term fees. Some parents are not happy with this as is the same with my DH. I’m in the middle, perhaps a nominal discount as the education received remotely will not be the same as if our child was at school. Our school refuses to do live streaming teaching too due to safeguarding.

Would anyone know what the legal stance would be? Are we obligated to pay?

Everyone has been affected by the Coronavirus and some parents are not wealthy but make a lot of sacrifices to pay the fees.

@creameegg, I'm not a lawyer but have experience of a private school office and I have a feeling that if you sought legal advice the law would be on your side hence why so many schools are offering a discount now to help parents. Plus any private school can furlough all the non teaching staff and pass on the saving.

One of the large national school groups is offering no discount off core fees this term but a discount next term.

Sorry below should read "no discount in summer term but discount for Autumn term".

Ours provided live online classes after they closed their doors & are doing so next term. They are trying to provide other activities via ‘Team’ as well and staff are making themselves available for anyone that needs to talk etc

They have basically said that they’re reducing costs where they can (food & other consumables) and will save money where possible and that at the end of the summer term they’ll give any savings as refunds to parents.

I think that’s acceptable.

I’m fairly sure any parents struggling would be helped.

We have been told no discount, pay up or your children will be removed from the roll by the end of April and never be allowed to return. I have since heard via another parent that they have laid off 100 staff. We don’t know whether that is furloughing or redundancy. Whatever they are doing, they are pissing off a lot of people.

Plus any private school can furlough all the non teaching staff and pass on the saving.

Really? So the grounds are to be abandoned, no one monitoring alarm, security systems or building state, no repairs carried out, no bills paid, no HR functions, no marketing for next year, no admissions processed, no on site care for key workers, no IT support for anyone including all the teachers.

I don’t think you’ve thought this through.

@OverMy Clearly they can’t furlough all the support staff but they can furlough a significant proportion. For example, I have not seen any evidence of the teaching assistants doing any work over the past week. I suspect that my DC’s school has already furloughed them, although they are not passing on any savings to the parents. Also, they do not need a full team of cleaners, cooks, marketing staff, librarians, after school staff, sports assistants... I could go on. As I mentioned above, I have been informed that my DC’s school has cut staff numbers by 100 already.

@AmelieTaylor I would have thought so too. In fact, I took comfort in the fact that after paying fees for seven years and never missing a payment, the school would be a bit flexible if we were struggling. Instead, I got a letter stating pay up or we will remove your children from the role at the end of April and they will never be allowed to return.

Not all but as listed below all the TA's, cooks, gardeners, drivers, office admin etc can be furloughed, they can get their jobs back when the schools reopen. Many prep schools in particular don't have big cash reserves, the wage bill has got to be paid from March to August by either Govt help or fees income or there won't be a school running in September.

I think there are definitely staff who directly support children or functions that aren’t running who can be furloughed. BunsyGirl your school sounds a bit delusional - not even a sniff of yes this isn’t what you pay for? Does it have huge waiting lists?

@BunsyGirl I was talking, very clearly, about OUR school, not yours or anyone else’s.

I’m impressed with ours, I’m sorry yours isn’t (it isn’t able) to do the sane things.

Our parents have been fabulous too offering homes to international students that couldn’t get home or whose parents thought they’d be better off staying in the UK.

As with any school, it’s not perfect - but I’m impressed with how this had been handled from the get go.

@OverMy I am actually quite upset about the whole thing, as are a lot of parents. My DC’s fees have already been paid for the summer term so that’s not the issue, it’s how they are behaving which is the problem. I think that they have made a big mistake because people are now threatening to leave and go to other schools.

@AmelieTaylor It can do the right thing. It had cash reserves of £3 million at the end of the last school year. It’s just choosing not to do the right thing.

BunsyGirl - being upset is perfectly reasonable as the school you’ve put your trust in has shown what the put first when they have other options. No message of support, no we are all in this just pay up or your children are out. That’s brutal.

We have today been offered a 10% discount. Its basically taking off the cost of lunch (although they don't describe it like that). It's not enough. With the best will in the world I don't think staff of
Independent schools are best placed to comment on why it's acceptable that schools continue to charge full fees whilst only able to provide a limited offering due to their own vested interest of receiving their full salary throughout the crisis.

My child's selective indi secondary school has provided a pretty full timetable of work. It's not particularly impressive though. Lots of watching bbc bite size,quiz let and teacher emails about the benefits of independent learning. And masses of handouts. Very little in the way of actual lesson delivery. So there are vast amounts of work set (no doubt to justify the fees charged) and marked but very little quality teaching. I'm sure it's taking the teachers time to upload all this stuff and then mark it but part of the reason for choosing an independent school is for much smaller tutor groups and individual attention. We are definitely not getting the type of education we are paying for. And it's definitely not worth what we are being expected to pay. It's not independent of course. It's now parent led.

No sport, no use of facilities, none of the vast extra curricular offering.

These are unprecedented time but my feeling is that the independent schools are being overly reactive and not exploring all of the options available to them. The schools are focusing on the time it's taking their staff to deliver what they are offering instead of looking at the service the parents signed up for.

My husbands company has furlonged all of its staff. Normally earning £50k plus all 10 of its graduate staff have accepted furlonging (so a significantly reduced income) to give the business the best chance of riding the storm. It's humbling. No pay for my husband either and we are typical of many small business owners who choose to privately educate. I know of solicitors, accountants, dentists and pilots that have been furloughed to a fraction of their previous salary. Others made redundant already. It's brutal out there. It feels like the schools are being too arrogant to even consider thisOr how they could make their remote offering work on a
skeleton staff. Many businesses are having to make very difficult decisions in the light of economic uncertainty. None of us knows how long this is going to continue and whilst many seem to think schools will be back in September it is feasible that children will be off until January or beyond. The schools are radio silent on what will happen if that's the case. Frankly, by not dealing with these issues head on many day schools will go bust as it's deluded to think their parent body as a whole will continue to pay. One terms fees, maybe - any longer and the effect on the economy will be too great in the face of devalued investments, crippled pension funds the likely house
price falls.

Some seem to be turning this into a moral issue (you should pay if you can afford to). It's not though - the schools are simply unable to provide the service signed up for but are relying on force majure clauses that weren't written for this purpose. My children's school has over £5m in cash reserves. That sort of stability was important to us when choosing a school. It's not passing on any of that stability to parents now at a time of great uncertainty.

Im not by any stretch saying we shouldn't pay something. But any other service business just wouldn't get away with the arrogant rhetoric private schools seem
to be using (other than nurseries a minority of whom seem to be using the same arguments).

A bit of me wonders if the schools actually need significant numbers of parents to complain so that they can then justify the furloughing of staff and they can't just suggest it as a way forward. It's a mess.

My local university is shedding staff at a rate of knots according to local press. I suspect the universities are already adjusting to the fact that it is difficult to justify full fees for a remote package.

@vinoandbrie it's not that we are living month to month. What has happened is an unprecedented shit show. I dare not look at what has happened to my pension / share portfolio, god knows what is going to happen to house prices, tenants aren't paying, dividends have to stop (wouldn't be responsible to keep on taking them when there is now no income and a ducking big tax bill to pay), clients putting big value work on hold indefinitely, salaries stopped as if we go bust we don't need to have to answer to the administrators about why we carried on paying ourselves. Not everyone puts their savings in an instant access cash account and most of us do have mortgages and other bills to pay too.

To be fair @allinit2gether I would cheerfully accept being furloughed on 80% salary if you are then happy to have no work set for your children until September. Or none marked as a skeleton staff could set work but not mark it as well- it's enough for each individual teacher to keep up with the volume of marking being generated.

Personally as an independent school teacher and independent school parent, who therefore feels more than qualified to comment on the situation, I am happy to pay for what my child is currently receiving who is continuing to learn and get individual feedback according to the organised scheme of work. Am I getting the same as I would in normal circumstances? No obviously not but I think I am getting the best available in the circumstances and am confident the provision will improve over time as staff get more experienced with the tech/what works/ what doesn't.

Actually laughing at the parents here complaining of the little real being done online. “We chose our school because of the small tutor groups” - really?! Do you think the school could control this utter nightmare?! Do you have any idea the Herculean effort already by teachers to set things up? Who possibly also have children at home?

I went to private school and my kids are at state. I’m so impressed by what our teachers have done. Full programmes, links to videos demonstrating concepts. But with the best will in the world, they are going to struggle to stand and lecture and record for an hour.

If you can pay, please do as your school will go bust.

If teachers are 'furloughed' the, better ones will simply resign and the only ones left to teach in September will be those who can't get jobs elsewhere. If schools are forced to close you will have to take your chance get in g a place in a state school you find acceptable-good luck with that.