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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Is it right that my mental health has affected my childs school position?

49 replies

Desperatemum03 · 12/03/2020 16:31

Apologies, if title is wrong or misleading but this is how it seems....

My child's secondary school place has recently been not accepted even though he fits all criteria.

I applied online last year via my local councils website (as required and on-time). After going to see the school on opening day, we was given a form that needed to be filled in by myself, a priest confirming how many times he attends church and a copy of his baptism certificate. This is apparently the new admissions criteria as the school does its own admissions! Unfortunately, my mental health took a turn for the worst in the following months which then resulted in me being under the mental health crisis team around October when this form was due to be handed in. I received a text message from school reminding me that the form's deadline was in two days. Given everything that had happened in recent months, I had totally forgot about the form but filled it in and gave it to my eldest to take into school. I was under 24 hour care at home and was unable to leave my house so was therefore unable to go and get this form signed by the priest. Cut a long story short, the form was refused as it was incomplete. I contacted the school (2 working days after the deadline) to explain my current situation but was met with a woman who was neither empathic or understanding and was told that i missed the deadline...END OF BASICALLY! I explained that I had recently attempted suicide after having suicidal thoughts and this is why i was unable to get the form filled in by the priest as I was mentally unable to do so. Around a month later, I emailed the school expressing my dissatisfaction at the lady I spoke to, and also stating that I believe there should be certain circumstances in which deadlines should be exceeded. I personally think my situation was one of these circumstances!!! Anyway, got met with yet a robotic "whilst I sympathise with your situation, we have to adhere to the deadline policy". However, I was glad I just had something in writing confirming my side of the story, should this affect his place.
Fast forward to two weeks ago, I received an email stating that my child's place was not successful. I was confused at this seen as he has an older brother that goes to this high school, is he baptised, lives in close proximity and goes to the primary school which I think they call a leading or follow on school (don't quote me on that). In my eyes, he fits all criteria so was really confused! after contacting the school directly, I was told that he was not offered a place at the school due to this 'form' not being handed in. However, my friend did not put in this same form and her child will not have a sibling at this school come September, yet her child got offered a place!
I can not help but think this is personal, maybe because I complained????
I have appealed the correct way but have tried speaking to the school in the meantime but they are just not interested at all!

My question is.....Surely my circumstances of being under the crisis team is reasonable grounds to extend their so called deadline? I really don't understand in today's society, how people are still not understanding towards mental health!

I am sorry to rant, but this is affecting my mental health again and I feel like it is my fault my son has not been given a place :-(

OP posts:

PanelChair · 13/03/2020 15:52

That’s not quite right about the waiting list. Waiting lists are held in the same order as the oversubscription criteria, where (OP says) the first category is having been baptised. As prh47bridge says, that means that the school should correct OP’s son position on the waiting list now, with evidence of his baptism. If they don’t, he runs the risk of missing out on a place (in which case it’s very likely that OP would win an appeal).

Original poster

Desperatemum03 · 13/03/2020 15:53

@prh47bridge

I have got everything in writing. The email confirmed that they are not able to add anything on to his application now and that i will have to wait till appeal! However, them not having him down as being baptised will put him lower down on the list which is going to affect any potential school places?

@Thisismytimetoshine

I have contacted the priest but not heard anything back yet as it was only yesterday when i rang. They will not accept any form now and proof of my childs baptism certificate has been sent to them but they wont add anything on!

Its ok for them to tell me to just wait for the appeal, but this is causing me a great deal of distress and i dont think i can last till June or whenever it is that they do their appeals?

OP posts:

PanelChair · 13/03/2020 15:55

I too am surprised at a school only requiring church attendance with the primary school - the faith schools I know best require regular attendance on Sundays over a number of years.

PanelChair · 13/03/2020 16:06

I’ve just seen your most recent post.

You need to be firm with the school. I assume you’ve already sent them the baptism certificate. Send it again and say clearly that you are proving evidence that your son is baptised and should be placed in that category on the waiting list.

prh47bridge · 13/03/2020 16:17

Agree with PanelChair. You've given them the evidence. They should now put your son in the appropriate category on the waiting list.

Thisismytimetoshine · 13/03/2020 16:28

In cases of oversubscription, a Certification of a Catholic Practice must accompany the baptism certificate. Op would be most unwise to suppose this isn’t necessary...

FrankieManca · 13/03/2020 16:37

Surely once you have the form signed by the priest they can and should accept your application, even as a late application?
Then you can go on the waiting list, and also appeal.

A horrible situation OP, and understandable that you are so upset.

prh47bridge · 13/03/2020 19:26

In cases of oversubscription, a Certification of a Catholic Practice must accompany the baptism certificate

That depends on the school. Catholic schools are not all the same.

cabbageking · 14/03/2020 05:09

They will go on the information on the CAF until you complete the supplementary evidence form and get the priest to sign it.

It isn't a faith application without this sorry.

You need to ask admissions how many children were accepted in the sibling category and if any lived further away from school than you. Unless your oldest was starting 6th form in September and a sibling link would likely not count.

Original poster

Desperatemum03 · 14/03/2020 08:43

Every time i send them an email, they just fob me off and refer me to the council who will deal with the appeal. I just dont see why it cant be added on now so that when all applications have been accepted or not accepted, his position will be an honest reflection?

@cabbageking The deadline was on the 31st October. They WILL NOT accept anything after, completed or not. Even though i rung and explained my situation.

@prh47bridge It is not just a catholic school, it is also church of England.

I will be asking for proof of all this at the appeal but was hoping it would be sorted earlier. I have been back at the doctors and given diazepam because of all this stress :-(

OP posts:

prh47bridge · 14/03/2020 11:30

It is not just a catholic school, it is also church of England

Really? I am very surprised. I have never come across a school that is both. I've come across schools that are of one faith but also prioritise other faiths but I can't imagine how a school that belonged to both faiths could work.

PanelChair · 14/03/2020 11:45

I’ve never heard of a Catholic/C of E hybrid either. Would you like to send me the name of the school by DM, so that I can look behind the scenes at its admissions policies?

Ihatemyseleffordoingthis · 14/03/2020 11:51

I would get the priest on side, hopefully and have him advocate for you.

OP - does your child currently have a place at another school, through the LEA?

PanelChair · 14/03/2020 13:50

Thank you for sending the name of the school.

As I said at more length in my DM, depending on factors such as attending a feeder school, your son should be in one of the categories within the admission criteria for baptised Catholic or CofE children. You should check urgently with the school which category they have placed him in – my concern is that, if they have disregarded the baptism certificate, they have placed in one of the lower categories for children who are not Catholic or CofE.

As you have said, this matters because if your son is not at the right place on the waiting list he may miss out on any place that becomes available. Have a look at the Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman website’s information about waiting lists. I don’t say this lightly, but I think you should consider going down the formal complaint route, first to the school and then to the LGSCO.

Original poster

Desperatemum03 · 14/03/2020 15:05

I have tried contacting him but not heard anything back as of yet. I will call back Monday though :-)

@PanelChair

I was in contact with them Thursday and they said they can not add any further information to applications and i have to forward any further documentation to the appeals panel.

They said they can not comment on positions on waiting list as they have not yet received the final accepting positions through the council yet. The deadline is Monday 16th March so they will know more on the 17th.

Their emails are very 'brush off' to me, and they do not want to speak to deal with me it is obvious.

Shall i send another email before 17th providing proof of his baptism again and stating that i want it adding on before the waiting list is completed? I have said all this to them already and they have just brushed me off and rejected my request. This is why i feel it is personal against me, i dont understand it at all :-/

OP posts:

PanelChair · 14/03/2020 15:30

I'm sure they can't say where exactly he is on the waiting list - because there will be some shuffling about as people accept or reject offers - but even now they should be able to say which category he's been placed in. As I read the admissions policy, he should be in the category for baptised/feeder school/regular worship at one of the named churches.

You mentioned upthread that the school has had proof of his baptismal certicate. Places from the waiting list will start to be offered very soon, so I'd be inclined to get moving on (1) formal complaint to the school that evidence of baptism has been ignored and (2) complaint to the LGSCO if that complaint isn't resolved at school level. Do try again to speak to the priest because under the admissions criteria evidence of church attendance will place you higher than evidence of baptism alone.

Original poster

Desperatemum03 · 14/03/2020 16:13

@PanelChair My formal complaint will be with them by Monday. However, the waiting list admissions will be done by Tuesday so i can not see it making a difference. However, i will keep you updated and again i thank you all for your responses so much!!!

OP posts:

PanelChair · 14/03/2020 18:02

It’s very unlikely all the waiting list places will be offered on Tuesday - there might well be some offers then but usually there are more over the summer as people accept alternative offers and turn down the places they were offered first. Once you get to appeal, you can ask what place on the waiting list your son was first placed in and (assuming they do move him up the list) whether being placed lower on the list cost him a place when further offers were made. If it did, the appeal panel is likely to grant the appeal.

cabbageking · 14/03/2020 19:07

The sibling rule should still apply after baptised siblings unless there was a mass of siblings? What year will your older child be in Sept 2020? Trinity do a similar dual arrangement.

PaulGalico · 14/03/2020 19:31

I think you also need to be much clearer about the letter from the Priest. In my experience the school will be expecting a letter from the Priest confirming Sunday worship. I think you might be underestimating its value and becoming too focused on your other complaints.

PanelChair · 14/03/2020 19:41

I’ve seen the school’s admissions criteria and (rather to my surprise) there’s nothing there about worship being on a Sunday or with a parent. There’s nothing to contradict OP’s understanding that attendance with the school will count. But I agree that written confirmation from the priest is important, because without evidence of “regular worship” OP’s son will be in a lower category on the waiting list.

Original poster

Desperatemum03 · 14/03/2020 20:16

However, they will not accept nothing now ""apparently".

OP posts:

PanelChair · 15/03/2020 13:11

The school are being stubborn but they are wrong. Appeals are not the right place to sort out waiting list issues - information that alters waiting list position often comes to light at appeals but it is always up to the admissions authority to sort it out. As you have the information now (and especially if you can get the additional information from the priest on church attendance) it should be sorted now.

prh47bridge · 15/03/2020 15:22

Agree with PanelChair. The school is unequivocally wrong. If you miss out on a waiting list place because of their refusal to put your son in the correct admissions category you will have a very good case for appeal on the basis that they have not administered the waiting list correctly.

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