School saying Y8 won't pass GCSE maths

[MarmiteChocolate]

DS is in Y8 at a big local secondary. She has always found maths tricky and this is becoming more and more obvious as they go thru the curriculum.... she got 11% on her end of Y7 maths paper and 12% on her Xmas Y8 paper. She has been having an hours tutoring once per week for nearly a year and started right at the basics with her tutor, who she enjoys seeing.
At parents evening last week her maths teacher told us that DS won't get a 4 for her GCSE and has basically written her off already. I asked about whether the school would run extra lessons for those inthe bottom set or what they can do to help DS - basically nothing according to the teacher.
I'm wondering how I should deal with this. Should I ask them to assess her for dyscalcula or a specific maths learning need? Which might give her TA support or extra time? Just stick with the tutoring and hope for the best? I'm useless at maths so can't help her at home. How do I tackle the school? Surely they should be supporting all kids to get a 4 at least in maths?

My (dyslexic) dc doesn't know many times tables and that's after attending a specialist tutor to help with them. It just doesn't stick. His maths teacher wants to drop him down a set and I think this will really limit his options. He's only 12 and exams are in three years time.

His maths teacher wants to drop him down a set and I think this will really limit his options.

Dropping down a set will likely mean they work at a slower pace and means he can focus more on basics. Dropping a set at age 12, really won't limit his options in the future ...

GCSE maths is critical for any even remotely professional job

No, it's not. And have you seen the current maths GCSE??? It's very difficult and has loads of content.

Thanks Redsky, you're right re slower pace but in our case this class will "feed" into a class doing an easier exam than the higher class would do. It would be possible to move up but I figure you'd have to be top of the class to do that which seems unlikely.

I don’t think it’s so much the content as having the qualification tenlittlecygnets. Most of the jobs the PP is talking about will ask for a pass at GCSE maths. Some will accept an equivalent level 2 qualification.

GCSE Maths is needed for most level 3 courses.

DD1 needed it for a nursery apprenticeship and I don't think many 5 year olds are anywhere near GCSE maths level.

I agree with a PP, it is better to be in a lower set going at a pace that gives confidence that they can understand, than being in a set too high and feeling hopeless compared with the others.

Everyone knows the passes in English and Maths are necessary stepping stones. But that wasn't what was implied, at least not to my mind: It’s GCSE, not A Level, so surely you can bring yourself up to speed and help her? GCSE maths is critical for any even remotely professional job.

Dd really struggles with maths - bottom set and just doesn't get it. Rubbish year 8 teacher didn't help.

Year 10 she got a good teacher that worked on boosting her confidence first. She still got an ungraded mark end of year 10 however was understanding more. Year 11 she was put in a group with just 6 of them and an excellent teacher - end of September she was level 1 January she got to level 2. She has just done another set of mocks and is now level 3 and her predicted score has been changed to a 4.

She was determined to do her best and has worked so hard - her teacher identified her gaps and gave her a personalised revision timetable. We have revision guides and past papers coming out of our ears but she is so happy to think she might pass. Having a teacher that didn't write her off really helped

Being in a lower set can as we all know mean being in a set with more behavioural and motivational issues. It should mean there is more support on offer, but it won't always.

Or, being in a lower set can mean smaller class sizes so more individualised help.

If your child is struggling with basics Mistress they won't be put in for the higher maths paper anyway. The higher maths paper has some really hard material (and I have a postgrad maths qualification).Better that they get a secure 4/5 than they flounder.

And this really is immaterial in Year 8 anyway. DC's school didn't make final foundation/higher tier decisions until after Y11 mocks.

My experience would be that a bottom set would be genuinely small. Anything above that will still be a pretty large class.

Sorry Redsky I should say am in Scotland so I'm referring to a different low/high qualification (National 5 as opposed to Nat 4).
Have spent a happy hour looking at iPad apps for numeracy support

All children need to work on Maths until the end of KS4 and all schools need to provide maths teaching. They do not need o provide GCSE teaching if it is inappropriate.

It is unfortunate that the teacher who mentioned that DD will find GCSE maths entirely inappropriate didn't go onto mention what maths the school will provide. They will provide something which will boost her functional numeracy.

I personally think there are certainly children who by Yr8 are very clearly not going to get to L4 at GCSE and for whom a GCSE maths curriculum just isn't appropriate, but who need instead to learn functional numeracy skills which will allow them to operate in the world. Coming to terms with this different path can be hard for parents, but actually if we think about the numbers who don't get L4 GCSE at the end of Yr11 it's obvious, that as well as ode who are borderline and might get L3 or L4, there will be good numbers who will never get close to L3 and for whom a GCSE curriculum with trigonometry and algebra just isn't appropriate.

We do have to be realistic and honest about children's chances and provide them with a curriculum which suits them. It is incumbent in schools to manage the communication about this and to show children and parents that they have a plan that is suitable for children for whom GCSE just isn't right. And they need to communicate what the later consequences and possibilities are for those who go this slightly different route. There will be consequences for next stages which need to be spelled out too. It is often the failure to be clear and honest early enough (think KS2) which results in parents having totally unrealistic expectations of schools and their children. Some children in reality won't achieve 5 L4+ at GCSE - it's a certainty even at Yr 7 or 8. That's not writing them off, it's being realistic. The challenge then is to provide something meaningful for them that helps them to the next stages. It's only when this isn't done that they are being written off.

@Juliette20 there is absolutely nothing wrong with counting on your fingers, but in a year 4 class there is a huge disparity between those that have to count every single times table answer out on their fingers and those that have taken the time to learn their times tables.

It means some children plough through a lot more work. If this were a test, then this literally boils down to the more questions you can answer the probability of a higher mark. If little Josie is counting out her five times tables, and Emily knows them, then Josie just cannot match the number of answers Emily will get in the same time.

Some people seem to be if the view that because L4 maths is needed for next stage of qualifications, all children must do it. They forget that large numbers don't get it and lots of those never will. Simply wanting their children to do it and get L4 doesn't mean it will happen.

Essentially, quite a lot of children will be L3/4 borderline. Of course they should keep going with it. Children who are L2 might have a surge too and keep going. However children who are heading to L1 or below really aren't going to make the leap to L4 - I really don't think it's writing them off, simply recognising GCSE isn't the rig course for them.....which means a more suitable maths course is needed, not nothing! That might make next steps post16 more tricky - but having a L1 or L2 wasn't going to make it easy either and 3 years of inappropriate maths could be totally soul destroying.

Thank you everyone for your comments, most of which have been super helpful and have given me lots of food for thought!

I have a meeting with the maths teacher next week and DD has been added to a small group intervention once a week, and we will continue with the tutoring.

For the rather unhelpful poster/s that suggested I learn maths myself.... I'm a single working parent and work blooming hard in a stressful job; going to college to do maths just isnt on radar as a possibility. I do have 3 university degrees (2 at masters level) and am glad that I eventually scraped my C in GCSE maths because I needed to have it to get onto one of my courses. It's not helpful to make me feel like a crap parent because I cannot dedicate every waking hour to my kids.

I think other posters have flagged it up, but it would be worth looking into functional skills maths which is equivalent to a GCSE. My DS has dyscalculia and I don't think he has a hope of passing GCSE maths, so it's something we'll look into.

Also - you sound like an amazing mum!

There is hope. I’ve written this on similar threads. I have two DS’s, DS2 is literally a math genius, DS1 has dyscalculia and severe processing problems but a very high IQ.
For DS1 numbers quantity time has no meaning, a number is just a mark on a piece of paper, he doesn’t understand that if 2 x7 is 14, that 3 x 7 is not 400, or if for example he looked at a plate of 8 sweets he can’t quickly guesstimate how many are on the plate if I said there were 75 he would accept that. Even in yr 11 we were told DS1 would never pass math GCSE despite math help tutors on line help etc since yr 2! He was in the bottom set. He also failed functional math in yr 10. He was at an very well regarded as in recommended in the media etc as a top “leafy” MC comp or as they like to say on all their blurb an “outstanding high achieving academy” but they had written him off, like your DD he was in the bottom set which was small but no one was going to pass math so no one was being taught to pass, the teacher was a senior manager thus frequently didn’t turn up and behaviour was not great.
My normally totally hands off DH went on the war path, we believed he had to have math GCSE he was going to pass everything else. After a long and protracted row where my husband would not back down after his mock they moved him the 2nd set, at the parents evening the new teacher said to me “as your insisting the X passes GCSE math he’s been moved into my set” I was stunned did we really have to “insist” that our son passes the essential math GCSE? The new teacher had ASD, he was very black and white, he told my ever questioning DS1 that at this level it’s doesn't matter why 3x7 is 21 not 400 just accept it is.They practised the same questions endlessly the ethos don’t ask why don’t try and think what does this mean just follow this method don’t wonder if you can come up with your own approach just repeat how I’ve told you to do it, no variations and you’ll get it right. Try and be systematic (not my DS’s strong point) Secondly neatness was not my DS1’s strong point (understatement) we practiced with graph paper write in the boxes and to keep the figures in rows. Luckily DS has an outstanding memory almost photographic memory, he also clicked with teacher he is super receptive to others emotions the teacher really believed he could pass his approach to math must have chimed with DS1 this all helped. In his November mock he got less than 10% he sat the foundation paper in Jan/Feb of the following year and passed with a C grade, we cracked open a bottle of champagne.
We thanked the teacher profusely, his final comment was interesting.
X is obviously super bright but clearly struggles with math but I think if I’d had him since the beginning if yr 10 with my style of teaching he would have passed the higher paper and probably got a A. He has moments of pure math genius!”
We were told once as math gets harder dyscalculia becomes less of a problem as we have calculators and basics like quantity and why 3x 7 is 21 not 400 know longer matter after all Einstein had dyscalculia.

Amazing and inspiring story happygardening! I think of dyscalculia as number blindness. My son is the same - zero concept of time and if you hold up three fingers and ask how many, he has to look, count, count again and even then is a bit unsure. BUT amazing spatial/ three dimensional ability all seemingly through innate instinct and working things out for himself through trial and error. All the way through primary school and pre school teachers have been gobsmacked by things he can build and draw. I am so frustrated because when I work with him I can see some maths ability there, but every year the maths syllabus is way ahead of him, so much so I feel he has had almost no maths education in school at all. You have made me hopeful though! x

I don’t know if this is possible ilovesushi but my advice is try to avoid teaching/helping him your self. We are notoriously hands off parents but even I tried to help DS2 with his math and I don’t think it made any difference and maybe made him more anxious about it. I’m a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde outside of job and away from horses my life long —obsession— passion; both at time requires bottomless patience, I don’t think my most ardent admirer and friend would say patience is my strong point. I remember trying to help in learn tables it was exasperating to say the least, or at one stage when he was about 7/8 on the advise of a tutor we tried 10 very easy quick mental math questions a day using giant cola bottles sweets as a bribe, do those in 15 mins and you’ll get these much adored cola bottles. All that happened was I got irritated that he appeared to not be able to add up 12 + 17, and put on weight because I ate giant cola bottles instead a
his younger brother rattled the answers off in his head in 2 mins and he got upset.
As he got closer to math GCSE only thing we kept repeating was you have to have math GCSE to do anything, if you fail it this time you’ll just have to keep resitting it till you pass it so work hard at it pass it the first time and you’ll never have to sit in a math class ever again. He said the day he passed it it was like a weight being lifted from his shoulders no more math.