Grammar schools - where to start ?

[sumar786]

We are thinking about preparing our son for Grammar school - Sutton, Wilsons, Tiffin Boys, Wallington but really don't know where to start. Do we first look at the catchment area rules, visit schools or start looking at private tutoring ? Will the exam format for all these schools be same so common preparation is possible ? My son will be in Year 5 in Sept 2020.
We live in Twickenham, so fall under the Richmond Council. Any tips would be welcome.

The first thing to do is to the read the Admissions section on all the schools' websites. The information is all very clear and is not secret.

All those schools test in English and Maths as you'll see when you read the websites. Yes, you'll need to do some preparation. Not necessarily private tutors. 11+ preparation books are available in book shops, Amazon and WH Smiths.

The websites will also tell when the school open days are. Mostly they are in June/July. Sutton Grammar used to be in September, but that might have changed. Definitely visit the schools on Open Evenings and look at how your son would travel to these schools. Twickenham is a bit far for the Sutton schools.

The journey is the first thing to consider really. I wouldn't have thought it a very easy route (particularly as it would seem to involve using SW Trains which can be notoriously bad). Lots of boys do travel from out of borough but most are on straightforward routes by bus or train (i.e. from Epsom, Ashtead, Wimbledon, Kingston). You may find that one is much easier to access than the others in which case possibly that is the one to aim for, unless you are planning on moving closer by?

To flag up that lots of people who have 'an eye on the prize' of a grammar school place will have already started tutoring by Year 5. Seriously.

I think there are some parents for whom the top-performing grammar (in this case Wilson's) trumps everything else when considering preferred choice. It may not be the right fit for your child though. You are not going to go wrong with any of them.

Good luck.

Open days: Wilson's and Wallington Boys are summer term (June); SGS is September. Didn't go to Tiffins as the journey isn't great from us, but I think maybe summer term also.

The boys who did best in our school this year (including my Ds) were not officially tutored, but did low-key practice at home from January in year 5. What works best for you will depend on what kind of child you have though - and you may also need to be realistic about your capabilities and levels of patience! We found Bond books too easy and the CEM/CGP ones were good for they first round.For the second round, London independent schools have past papers in their websites.

The SET exam and Tiffins are about speed and accuracy - so the first step is to make sure your boy knows the content (which covers up to end of yr6), and for us the preparation was mainly about answering quickly without making silly errors. The second round for SGS and Wilson's (same test but different weighting on the scores) is open answer maths and an extended writing task, so a bit more 'tutor-proof'. Keep in mind that all of the boys at the second round are likely to be strong in maths and it's the English that tends to make the difference. Even saying that, there is a still a range of literacy levels once at the school, so they don't need to be exceptional at both. Obviously being strong at both makes the process easier though!

Look into the mocks at the schools. The one at SGS is the longest running and most established, so you get standardised marks against a large cohort. They run in the spring and summer of year 5 but registration opens in January.
Happy to answer more questions if you want to Pm me. I know most about Wilson's as I know staff there.

Sorry for errors - this app is tiny on my phone!

If you live in twickenham that's a bit of a journey to the sutton grammars. I live in that area and I would not want to commute to twickenham for work.....it's a lot to put on an 11yo. Out of them if you had to do it I would say sutton would be easiest location wise as it has some quick trains from Clapham junction. There is a bus from Kingston but that is hideously slow.

Actually my overriding tip ties in with the journey comments - make sure you and your son keep open-minded about other options. Many people go into the 11+ with their ideal school in mind and by the time it comes to an end, if they don't get the ideal school, they feel like all the effort would have gone to waste if they don't go to any grammar school - resulting in the child doing an hour plus commute each way for 7 years Unless your nearer schools are dire, I don't think a horrid journey is worth any school.

First check whether or not you fall within the Inner Priority Area for Tiffin (less then 10km from the school). If not, your chances of getting in are very slim.

Thanks everyone for replying back and sharing your useful tips. As advised, I have checked all the 3 grammar school websites (Sutton) and Tiffins and this is what I have found:
Wilsons - don't care about postcodes.
Wallington and Sutton - they have provided a list of postcodes and the common ones are SM1-SM7, KT4 and few with CR.
Tiffins - 10 KM distance from school is inner priority order.

About the tests:
Wallington, Sutton, Wilsons - share the common SET test.
Wallington - No second round, only SET! Does that mean it is easier to get into ?
Sutton & Wilsons - Common second round but different criteria.
Tiffins - 2 rounds.

First round for all tests is multiple choice - in English and Maths.
Second round is written test in English and Maths.

I didn't know they take actual mock tests at school too, so definitely would register for those mock tests and also for the open evenings in June and Sept.

I have a silly question :) I am considering moving closer to these schools - to a place which will make us in priority order for Sutton grammars plus still keep us 10KM within Tiffin. But since some of you mentioned that boys travel from Epsom/Ewell etc easily, but their post code is KT17-KT19, and thus, they are outside the priority order.
My question is, out of the 130 seats these schools offer, how many (average) statistically have gone outside the priority order ?

Since we are considering moving, I am not thinking of Epsom/Ewell but should we ?

You need to check out the Surrey pages of elevenplusexams.co.uk
Website, it has all the info you need.

My question is, out of the 130 seats these schools offer, how many (average) statistically have gone outside the priority order ?

For SGS, they basically have two allocation lists: I believe it's 75 places for in-catchment and 60 purely based on score, with distance being applied on equal scores.

Yes, Wallington is considered easier to get into, but is still sought-after by some high scorers dependent on a child's strengths (eg, a child may prefer the school for its rugby or arts department) and is a great school.

If you are looking to move to an area with good access to the Sutton Grammars as well as Tiffins, my suggestion would be Worcester Park.

Somewhere like Cheam might work. It's sutton borough but I think it would (just) fall under the 10km distance.

11+ forum is good place to start. Although there are a few over-invested Mums there..

Cheam is a good spot in theory, but a 35-minute bus ride to Kingston at clear times turns into an hour in slow-moving traffic in the morning, so we discounted Tiffins for that reason. One of the major sticky points is Worcester Park, so cutting that out would make the journey less soul-destroying. It might create a similar problem for Wilson's though... but fine for SGS and Wallington

I think you need to start the tutor ASAP. We only used a tutor for a month before so DS understood the papers. He passed the first stage but was 2 marks under pass mark. Even if he got the pass mark it wouldn’t have been enough as the schools are super competitive. Funnily enough he’s sitting his GCSE’s in 2 months and is predicted all 8’s and 9’s. So I don’t regret the fact he didn’t get it. He’s at Riddlesdown so good school anyway. Friends son at Wilson’s and doesn’t like the constant testing. All kids are different though and that might suit some.

So my advice is start visiting the schools soon and check the admissions for when you need to register. And get a tutor now as some parents start years before

The Sutton grammar schools are really competitive. Lots of people don't move until after their child gets a place.

If you move before the exams you need to make sure you move somewhere near a comprehensive/faith school you would be happy for your child to go to.

Of course, Tiffin schools are also difficult to get into so you really need to move somewhere where there is a good back up school.

If you are looking to move to an area with good access to the Sutton Grammars as well as Tiffins, my suggestion would be Worcester Park. However, as you can't be guaranteed a grammar school place at this stage, you do need to check out other non-selective options. I've said in another thread that I believe some parts of Worcester Park are in a secondary school catchment 'black spot' (which is why Glenthorne has ringfenced places for DC from that area). So all very well moving there only to find that if your DS doesn't qualify for a selective place they're scuppered.

Yes, I agree. I have said as much to the OP in a PM. I know Glenthorne and Cheam High have ring-fenced places for Worcester Park residents, so she'd need to be very careful when choosing location. The council publish distances for each criteria, so if you're going to move for schools, research to cover all bases.
Glenthorne also have 24 places for music, dance or drama aptitude. And Greenshaw have 60 selective places from the SET with a lower pass mark than the grammars.
There's a good boys faith school in New Malden too, if that's relevant. Then I suppose there's Raynes Park High? I don't know much about it but my assumption is it's not one of the more 'desirable' ones, but could be a banker.

Hi @sumar786, what did you decide in the end?