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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

School appeals

48 replies

Jaspari01 · 06/03/2020 14:18

Hi My daughter did not get place in her choice of schools and has been offered a place in a school that she doesn't want to go to. What is the rate of success with appeals on the grounds of commuting, bullying and safety of the child. Please advise

OP posts:

prh47bridge · 08/03/2020 14:11

Yes, absolutely it forms a case. But it has to be around things that are relevant to the child. So, for example, if the appeal school has lots more musical activities than the allocated school that would be relevant to a musically talented child but not to other children. An argument that the appeal school achieves better academic results, for example, may be true but is not the basis for a successful appeal.

Thisismytimetoshine · 08/03/2020 14:20

Ah, I see. Has to be specifically relevant to the child.

Thisismytimetoshine · 08/03/2020 14:21

Is there anything you can think of, op?

Pebblecat33 · 08/03/2020 14:34

Thanks all, we’ve spoken to Admissions dept about previous waiting list stuff but as the school is an academy they don't hold any information (apparently) so need to speak to the school directly tomorrow.

She is very interested in computers sciences and has an aptitude for that but to be honest I don't feel like it’s a very strong case. She’s 11, how much can an 11 year old show this?

We’ve just been for a walk to the allocated school, the route is basically down a very busy road and there’s a few main roads to cross. She freaked out every time I tried to get her to decide whether it was safe or not to cross! I’m even more terrified at the prospect now as have visions of her on her own frozen at the side of the road in tears every morning.

The preferred school is through housing estates/park with only one road and she would be with at least 4/5 friends so feels a lot safer for her. Is that any basis for appeal?

cabbageking · 08/03/2020 14:39

The starting point is all and any school can provide a suitable education for every child unless you can prove differently.
The panel really is not interested in your thoughts they want evidence that makes sense in line with the chosen school.

LIZS · 08/03/2020 14:40

Friendship groups are pretty fluid in early secondary. There may well be others doing the same or converging routes. Does the school offer any sort of buddy scheme?

Thisismytimetoshine · 08/03/2020 14:44

Having to cross main roads wouldn’t be of any relevance to a high school child. Thousands of London children have to cross the city.

Porcupineinwaiting · 08/03/2020 14:45

Well she has nearly 6 months to get to grips with crossing the road, so I wouldnt worry about that. Just practice. Start with smaller roads, then main ones at quieter times of day. Teach her to identify safe crossing points. Whichever school she goes to, these are skills she needs.

My dc were really worried about catching the public bus to secondary school. In fact for ds1 it was his no. 1 worry. A week into term and all was fine.

Pebblecat33 · 08/03/2020 14:46

They do have a buddy scheme, and my fear is this is what’s going to destroy our chance of appeal! She has a long history of difficulties making friends, etc. Her anxiety problems all seem to stem from trust issues with other kids, I’m not entirely sure why and any probing makes matters worse. The friendship group she has now means the absolute world to her as she doesn’t fit in with a lot of kids, etc. Her close friends all live within 5 minutes from our front door and she’ll have to walk past 2 of their houses to get to the allocated school, something she’s dwelling on

Thisismytimetoshine · 08/03/2020 14:51

That sounds difficult, Pebble, and I’m not trying to make you feel worse but primary friendships can dissipate quite quickly after high school begins.

Even if they remain solid, they’ll likely be in different forms so won’t see each other during the course of a normal day.

cabbageking · 08/03/2020 14:56

Every appeal is different, the presentation differs, the panel in one area differs to another area. The LA presents an overview of the school which can be questioned. Your presentation can be questioned. The questions and answers are different based on the presentations. No one can offer you a definitive idea of your chances other you need to think outside the box, do in-depth research and present evidence, not option where ever possible

Pebblecat33 · 08/03/2020 14:57

No problem, I know no one on here is trying to make things worse. We all just want what’s best for our kids.

I’ve tried the whole “people make new friends at high school anyway” tack. A bit of a difficult one when she knows I’ve had the same best friend since I was 8 (!) but it makes things worse to be honest. She just hears that all her friends are going to forget her and she’ll be all alone. And when you love in an area where the majority of uniforms belong to preferred school it’s even harder to sell.

We’ve been preparing her for this scenario since September as we always knew it was a possibility but when your best mate lives round the corner and you thought you were going to be together forever how do you convince a headstrong 11 year old otherwise?

Thisismytimetoshine · 08/03/2020 15:00

Hopefully the waiting list will work in your favour by September if an appeal doesn’t do it first 🍀

Porcupineinwaiting · 08/03/2020 15:06

how do you convince a headstrong 11 year old otherwise?

Maybe you dont for now. Maybe this is the time for calmly listening to her fears and worries and sympathising. Give her time to grieve her loss/voice her fears.

Don't promise her you can fix it because you may not be able to.

Put her on the waiting list for your preferred school. Make an appeal. But also talk positively about her future- whatever shape it takes.
Point out her friends will still be her friends whichever school they all attend.
After Easter, talk to her new school about how they can help her settle in. Our secondary does extra settling in visits for children who need them and you have already said they have a buddy scheme.

MagicMM · 09/03/2020 10:36

Morning all,
today I woke up having thoughts in my mind that actually appeal is unfair to others. Just wanted to share with you and see what do you think ;)

I do not think that people should appeal generally and in any case, and especially for ability criteria places where places are allocated purely on the score. Imagine my situation when I got up to the top of the waiting list (hope for that!) and unexpectingly someone draw me back cause they won appeal but they have been after my DC by score …

It is so tricky and unfair, and I am thinking how bad I would feel which I do not want to cause to someone else. That fact actually may change my mind and NOT to go ahead with the appeal.
There is always chance to win appeal but are you going to be happy after that knowing that you have made someone else unhappy...

If the child have medical needs or something exceptional bad happened in the family which affect the exam maybe they have right to appeal but in most of the cases parents should not appeal, I think. Everyone think that his child is the brightest and clever and it is a shame for being that close not to achieve a place, but I have heard that some parents achieved both girls in grammar schools after appeal (2 different years)...which is wrong I think.

Thanks for reading my long post :)

Thisismytimetoshine · 09/03/2020 10:52

I assume you mean grammar schools. Are there instances of children who failed to make the cutoff being admitted on appeal? I wonder what their argument would be?

prh47bridge · 09/03/2020 11:49

To win an appeal for a grammar school place the parents will have to convince the appeal panel that their child underperformed in the test and that they are actually of the required standard. They will need a good explanation as to why their child underperformed and solid evidence to show that their child is of grammar school ability.

There are instances where a child who failed to achieve the required score is admitted on appeal but they are vanishingly rare.

FrankieManca · 10/03/2020 00:22

MagicMM the Dd if the OP of this thread was subject to as racist attack that left her needing surgery and in plaster. If the appeal system gives her a chance to appeal for a school away from the children who did this I am all for it.

An appeal is a chance for the kid who, for whatever reason, needs a particular facility or provision to thrive.

Parents appealing on spurious grounds to get an Outstanding school they are way out of catchment for us a cynical sharp elbowed push to the front of the queue.

Pebblecat33 · 10/03/2020 08:03

I think most parents would say that they’d be happy as long as their child is happy!

In our case the preferred school and allocated school are BOTH rated outstanding, BOTH oversubscribed, BOTH have excellent results and are BOTH local academies.

The only differential between the two is and always been the school that she wants, the one where she would be happier and the one where she would get the peer support of her friends during transition and beyond.

I would hope that an appeal board would consider that the child’s safety, both physically and mentally, would be the most important thing?

Porcupineinwaiting · 10/03/2020 08:39

A serious concern should be taken seriously but I cant see how saying the only way your child could be "safe" is to go to the same school as her friends is going to wash.

MarchingFrogs · 10/03/2020 08:59

There is always chance to win appeal but are you going to be happy after that knowing that you have made someone else unhappy...

Assuming that your own DC is naturally intelligent, capable of being 'drawn out' - educated - to a higher level, you didn't have her coaches for the selection test because you believe that grammar school is for those of the highest ability, I would save my ire for those whose DC were coached to obtain a higher score on the day than your DC, but who do not possess the same potential.

Not an issue relevant in any detail to the OP, however.

The right to appeal the decision not to admit one's DC to a school for which one has applied is enshrined in law. Please feel free to lobby your MP to try to get the law changed, if you feel so strongly about it.

Pebblecat33 · 10/03/2020 09:29

I’ve seen what anxiety can do, not just with my daughter but others close to me as well. A lot of people scoff about how can being anxious possibly put someone in danger? what difference can this situation make compared to that situation? What difference can having a support network possibly make, etc.

Trust me - it does. And when it is someone who internalises their anxiety the way my child does, it’s even more vital to have someone who knows you looking out for the signs and knowing when to report concerns etc.

Porcupineinwaiting · 10/03/2020 09:34

It's not about downplay anxiety, it's about conceding that it affects an awful lot of people. Your job is to make the case that your daughter needs special consideration. Others will be doing the same. The job of the appeals panel is to sort that out so that the greater majority are not unduly disadvantaged by numbers in popular schools rocketing to unsustainable levels.

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