Offered school place not even on preferred list

[OverwhelmedSendHelp]

Hi, I’m new here and desperately overwhelmed with everything.
I have 3 children, oldest (E) due to start high school in September, middle child (L) is in year 4 in an ARP unit at a deer ate primary school tk his 2 siblings and youngest in reception.

I applied for a school 1.2miles away and 1st preference, their catchment is 0.3 miles due to oversubscription. It’s a great school, son day entrance exam and came 54th out of 350 for 20 scholarship spaces - to clarify this is a normal non fee paying school.

2nd choice was the sister school to No1 which is in their admissions policy you have to apply for also, 3rd was a school 2.5 miles away in another borough where son has spent his entire academic life so he would have friends, 4th was undesirable cross borough but he would have friends there too. 5th was a school within borough but quite far but another sister school to 1&2.

We were offered a place at the nearest school which we didn’t apply for and in completely undesirable. We unfortunately live in not the greatest area and are currently unable to move house for legal reasons.

So 1st choice is the school that L would be recommended to go to by his current primary school, as t has an ARP and they fee it would best meet his needs for high school. I’d like to appeal on the basis that it would be beneficial for both boys to be in the same school for their emotional, mental and pastoral wellbeing. How would I word this? Is this even likely to help?

I hope I’ve been clear, thanks so much for any help. I hoped that Karma wouldn’t give me school aggravation after all the issues with EHCPs etc but here we go again....

Sorry for poor typing! Should say middle child is in a separate school to his 2 siblings.

Also should add elders and youngest are cross borough and middle child is in home borough ARP unit.

accept the place and wait it out.
similar happened to us, but we were offered a place at our preferred school a couple of weeks later.
there is a lot of movement

Would L have an EHCP? I am not sure they would take where a second sibling might go in the future as a reason to admit an older sibling with no issues. I thought the basis of an appeal had to be why that school could meet his needs when another one couldn't which isn't applicable as he doesn't have specific needs?

The other reasons such as friends being at a school would have no bearing on an appeal.

So you missed out on preferred school by distance? Is it a formal designated catchment area (ie drawn on a map) or are the distances you quote- the last distance offered?
In terms of waiting list, if you're not already on it, ask to be on it. You'll get an idea of place on waiting list in coming days - but don't forget your position can go down as well as up. How many did school take from wait list in the last couple of years? (Not a perfect hide, admittedly)

In terms of an appeal you need to focus on how this school meets your child's needs that overrides prejudice to the school by admitting over numbers. Am not sure focusing appeal on sibling relationship arising out of a future admissions application would hold much sway but hopefully one of the experts will be along soon.

But first off, accept the offered place.

L has an EHCP, E is atypical, very academic but emotionally delicate not resilient at all so this has hit him very hard.

The catchment is 0.3m due to oversubscription.

I’ve really reluctant to accept the place offered as I honestly can’t have my son go there- it’s preferable that we home school. Might seem dramatic but we are currently stuck in a bad area.

Accepting the offered place won’t disadvantage you in any appeals or waiting lists.

Have you visited the offered school and read it’s Ofsted report? Our local school is rough by most MN standards as far as I can see but is an excellent school.

You do seem a long way out on distance for all the schools on your list.

Definitely appeal the first choice school citing all the reasons why the school is right for your Ds and what it offers in terms of things that are important to him; multiple MFL at GCSE/ participantion in Maths Olympiad’s, specific extra curricular activity that he is committed to : does well in. Do not say that the allocated school is rough. You are appealing for the school you want, not against the allocated school. Also do not say you have turned down the place and will HomeEd: that will not be a factor as to why they should give you a place and might make them feel you are tying to lever them, and could backfire.

Does the school have a sibling policy which is higher than distance in the admissions criteria?

No harm in including the sibling info and sibling’s future attendance, it might set a context, but unless someone knowledgeable says otherwise I would expect that the appeal has to be in the merits of the school for this child. As the school has an ARP it might be worth checking whether they have any Young Carers support or a Young Carers club, as whether his sibling attends or not your Ds1 is a Young carer. That would be a reason to appeal, if the allocated school does not.

Worst case scenario he could go to the allocated school and move once the middle child was in and get a sibling place.

I don't see how this can be a surprise. If you know you live 1.3 miles away, and you know the distance- only criteria is 0.3 miles away, you were never going to get a place.

I don't understand why parents put an unattainable school first place when they can see they won't be offered it.

I agree, accept offered place, visit it, and hope a waiting list place comes up.

Siblings won’t come into it, especially a sibling that isn’t currently at the school. Secondary it is accepted that children can and do go to different schools than siblings.
I’m a bit confused about the scholarship thing - as you then say it’s a non fee paying school so where does the scholarship come into it? If he came 54th and there’s only 20 places at the school I imagine there is going to be 33 children ahead of him on the waiting list?

An appeal needs to show either a mistake was made with you application eg they had your address wrong OR you need to show that this school is the only school in the area that can cater to a particular need your child applying has. Eg it has a Chinese language programme and your child currently learns Chinese and no other school in the area does chinese

If your oldest has an EHCP you should be able to name the school you want outside of the admissions round - what happened to that process?

You should always accept the school you are offered. Doesn't mean you will end up going there but you have a place. T h I would have thought not having a place at all would be upsetting for your son - everyone knows where they are going but he has no idea if he will even go anywhere.

Titchy it's the middle child with the EHcp I think

If your oldest has an EHCP the you should be applying via your SEN team..... if he doesn't then only other usual criteria will apply-
you can appeal but only on either a mistake or why it would work for him as an individual ...
I would get on waitlist and also waitlist for other schools that you prefer that are closer.....you dont have to stick to the ones you put on your form ......
There is a lot of movement in London over time even for oversubscribed schools... but at that distance from a very over subscribed it is unlikely as others on the waitlist will be closer than you.... even still - we got offered a place half way through yr7 at a school we had listed for...
if sibling 2 with EHCP goes there you would be able to use sibling priority (if the school has it - lots dont) but not before then...

There's no harm in putting an aspirational school first on your list, if you accept that the likelihood is that you won't get it. But you should put a more likely school on the list somewhere (even if last place). But it sounds like all OP's school were unlikely, which if why they've been offered the local school (and tbh you're lucky to have been offered the local school as opposed to an even less desirable school miles away).

Whilst you should feel free to appeal, appealing on the basis that you'd like E to be with his sibling in two years time, I suspect is unlikely to win. Anything might happen in 2 years! You need to look for other reasons you prefer the school and why E is suited to going there - curriculum offer, after school clubs etc.

Ah so the other child has the plan so not relevant. Sounds like several things need clarifying - what were the criteria, how does the scholarship space work - is it an equal banding situation, or would you be moved to a lower criteria as your child didn't make the cut for the scholarship group. What's the deal with the siste school - what are their criteria. Admission or prh might have an opinion on the having to put school 1 down in order to put school 2 - that sounds contrary to the code as you're forced to use two choices to apply for one school.

In the meantime get on all waiting lists - they do move very rapidly, and clarify where you are in each. Let your LEA know you'll be appealing.

Well you can (and should) go on the waiting list for all the schools you prefer and you can appeal. But you need more for an appeal than "this school will really suit his younger brother". And fgs spend some time learning about how school admissions work before you appeal.

You can't appeal for E on the basis that L may go there in 3 years time. You have been offered the nearest school for which your dc qualified, presumable none of your preferences (assume you were limited to 3?) were allocated as he did not meet the criteria highly enough but that should be clear from the offer letter and data online including furthest distance offered a place. Were any of your preferences historically certain ? Are there any other schools which you would be happier with, do they still have places or could you go on waiting lists? Otherwise accept the place and wait.

Yep I understand it’s a reach to request solely on the basis of a siblings attendance in the future.

Thanks for the replies some very helpful info

I don't understand why parents put an unattainable school first place when they can see they won't be offered it
Because There may be genuine reasons why that school really suits that school in a way others don’t and having applied and not been offered a place you can appeal. About 25% of appeals are successful.

Plus in London you get 6 preferences so you might as well take a punt or 3, if you have a ‘banker’ at the bottom of you list.

Hi OP.

Unfortunately, non of the school you put on your list were attainable, due to distance/over subscription etc.
When that happens the LEA offers a place in the nearest school with places, which is what they have done.

The recommendation in this case is always to accpet the place. If you don't the LEA will not work with you further to find a place.
Then you can appeal for any school you applied for, and ask to be put on the waiting list for any school you applied for (and I believe you can add other schools and ask to be on the waiting list for them)

An appeal (apart from when the LEA has made an error in the use of criteria) can only be made for THIS child, without reference to any siblings (even if the siblings were already at the school) and it can only be made on the basis of why THIS school is necessary, so you can't say that you don't like the school offered, you can only say why he should go to the school you like.

Unfortunately, your second child's needs will not effect your first child's place. Even the fact that you can't get 2 children to 2 different schools does not come in to it.

Sadly, you were badly advised when you fille din the form, as non of the schools on your form were attainable.

The LEA should be able to give you some idea as to how long the waiting list is. If you are in the top 5-10, you may have a chance of getting in to the school, either before September, or before Christmas. If you are in a big city, there tends to be more movement of families so places come up. However, you may not get a place at any of your preferred schools. That is a real possibility you face.