No offer

[JoeGargery]

Hello,

We unexpectedly have had no offer for DC2, who would have got into at least two of the six schools we applied for in previous years. One is a where the sibling is and the other is very close and not usually oversubscribed.

I know I will receive all the info about waiting lists etc when the official letter comes and that the next round of offers won’t be for a few weeks, but what are the things I need to be clear on?
I know I need to:

1. Check the criteria applied were correct (is this via the schools themselves or the LA?)

1. Check DC is on the wait list at all named schools (despite the fact it should be automatic)

1. Start an appeal if any of the criteria applied were incorrect

1. Put DC on any waiting lists of further schools we might consider (is this via the LA or via the schools themselves?)

And after that is it just a case of sitting tight until the acceptances come in and the new offers are made later in the month?

Thanks so much.

Sounds v tough, but you seem to be on top of it. Was there no sibling policy at your DC1 school? I would check how far out you were for any schools that offer on distance, it will give you a good idea how far up on the waiting lists you might be? Lots of changes after acceptance deadline, we went from no offers to 3 on our list quite quickly!

Hi OP, I'm not an expert (you need @prh47bridge and other posters) but I think you can appeal without anything needing to have been wrong about the procedure. It's about making a positive appeal for a school that would be good for your child so a place should be found. Have a look at this thread - I know it's not your situation, but there is useful advice about getting a place in a school you haven't been allocated:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3837082-what-do-you-do-if-you-don-t-want-the-school-you-ve-been-offered

How come you didn't get in on the sibling priority? Or is that a selective school with no sibling priority? Very unusual otherwise

Thanks, all. Yes, I discovered that thread and am trying to take in the info.
It’s a faith school with no sibling policy but DC1 got in comfortably so we thought DC2 would as well.
I know it’s likely there will be movement but I have also heard the catchments are extremely narrow this year. So it’s hard to feel extremely positive.

You will be offered something.
If there are many without a place, a school will end up with a bulge class (which could even create movement so you end up getting a prefered school). The LA will hold off doing this until they have the withdrawals because students have places at Private schools.

If you decide to appeal, do search for the threads on appeals from previous years. There is a wealth f information on Mumsnet about the procedure.
I would also double check you are on the waiting list for all preferred schools - one of my DC nearly wasn't for some reason.

1. The letter should say why you didn't get a place. Check they put your child in the correct admissions category and that they have measured the distance correctly. If you are unsure about the admissions categories the information will be on your council's website. If you can't find it feel free to PM me the name of the school and council involved.

1. Yes

1. You can appeal even if they got everything right. If they have made a mistake you will have a very strong case but it is always possible to appeal on the grounds that your child needs to go to this school.

1. Probably via the LA but ask them. And the LA may limit the number of waiting lists you can be on.

The LA has to come up with an offer somewhere. You won't be left without a place. But it may not be at a school you want.

Thank you.
@prh47bridge, do you mean the letter will specify which criteria were used for each school, including distances etc?

Also when I check about they are on the waiting lists, is that via the schools themselves?

@Applepieco, nice to know someone else has been in the same place and had good news. How long did it take to get an offer?

I don’t quite understand why the letter isn’t sent via email. It would help avoid a day or two of confusion.

I’ve just thought of another question, sorry.
So am I right in thinking no new offers are made until after the offer deadline?

And then, if it turns out the correct criteria have been applied and DC still doesn’t have a place at any of named schools, I can still appeal on the basis you have all mentioned above.

If the correct criteria were NOT applied, and I realise this, can the correct criteria be applied other than through an appeal? In other words, if it’s a clear mistake, do I still have to go through appeal?

Thanks again,

It should give that information for your first choice. It is less likely to give information about your other choices. Some LAs are better at this than others. Most set out the detailed reasons why you missed out (which category your child was in, the distances involved if relevant and so on), but some just give a bland statement that doesn't tell you anything. If your LA is in the latter category you will have to contact them to ask for the details.

At this stage the waiting list is almost certainly being managed by the LA so contact them.

When further offers are made is up to the LA. Some will offer a place as soon as they receive a rejection, others wait for a while. Note that the closing date for accepting offers is not final. If someone hasn't responded by then the LA must contact them again and give them another chance to respond before they can take the place away.

If it is a clear mistake which has deprived your child of a place the LA is supposed to award you the place without an appeal. However, most LAs ignore this and force parents to appeal even for the most obvious mistakes.

prh47bridge, I hope you don't mind :-) I have messaged you for some advice.

I don't mind at all. I will respond when I've read your PM properly and done some research.

@prh47bridge Thank you so much!

Thanks very much @prh47bridge. Apparently we are number 2 on the WL for one school and number 6 on another. Criteria seem correctly applied. So something will happen, it’s just a waiting game...
Thank you.

Given what people say about the amount of movement on waiting lists, if you're second on one and sixth on another, that ought to give you a very good chance of something.

Thanks, Bluebird, I hope so!

Hello,

Just updating.

We were meant to hear about second round offers ‘on or shortly after 26th March.’

It’s been a week now and we’ve heard nothing.
Our LA school admissions line only has a recorded message, saying it’s not possible to speak to anyone, nor leave a message, and not to email unless it’s been 15 working days from the 26th. That’s still another two weeks. Ordinarily I wouldn’t mind, but two of the schools to which we applied have appeals deadlines before then.

Our first choice school advised us - before all the CV upheaval - that we would likely get a place based on WL movements in previous years, and that we would still have plenty of time to lodge an appeal after second round offers were announced. Since then, having been in touch with the school, they said they are still waiting to hear from the LA about second round numbers and the possibility of making offers. They are giving more times to lodge appeals given the circumstances, but two of the other schools lower down on our list are not.

I’m worried that:
a) we miss any appeals deadlines
b) we are less likely to get any place, as economic downturn may mean people wanting places now, who were previously pursuing an independent option.

I’m a bit stuck as to what to do. As a frontline worker I also have zero time at the moment, so it’s a bit hard to even consider how I would have the time to start an appeal in a short space of time.

I'm not clear why you are waiting to submit appeals. You don't have to wait for second round offers. And there isn't much work involved in submitting an appeal. You don't have to write a full case at this stage. Just say that, as you haven't been offered any school, your child's education will be prejudiced if they are not admitted to this school and that your detailed case will follow at a later date.

They must still hear your appeal even if you miss the deadline. However, your appeal may be heard after all those who appealed on time, which can reduce your chances of success. I would therefore strongly recommend submitting your appeals before the deadline. You can always withdraw from any you don't want to go ahead with if you get an offer.

The LA must find places for everyone. Even if there are more people wanting places, they still have to find places for all of them. If necessary, they will negotiate with schools about opening bulge classes. You will get a place somewhere, but it may not be at a school you want.

Thank you very much @prh47bridge. I was strongly discouraged from starting an appeal without second round offers both by the LA and by the individual schools; this is why I waited. And then covid happened and my job stepped up massively and I haven’t had a chance to address this- was fully expecting to have an email last week.

I have found out from the individual schools that DC’s position has gone down the list for every single school, but still not heard anything from the LA. I don’t have much bandwidth to be starting to prepare appeals now but it sounds as though that must be my next step.

Whilst the LA and school may be discouraging you from appealing before the second round offers come out, I have to agree with PRH that it is more in your interest to get your appeal in now rather than wait.

It is not a great surprise that you might have gone down in the waiting list because the list will now include all those who failed to submit an on-time application and they may well have a higher priority than your child.

Thanks, I have emailed to say I wish to appeal.

It is a bit of a shock as choice 1 school admissions officer was so certain DC would get in before Easter and was so very reassuring; and choice 2 is almost spitting distance and not usually oversubscribed.

I think it’s the lack of info from the LA that is getting to me. They haven’t been very clear in their advice at all.

Thanks, all.

I know of some late applicants in my area who had been intending on independent education, now finding themselves in changed circumstances and choosing state over independent. This has also pushed previous applicants down the list for their preferred schools where some of the applicants have higher criteria on the oversubscription criteria. I suspect the current situation will impact many state schools where parents had been dithering or are now looking to apply. Sorry OP I am sure this isn’t what you want to hear, but just as background to why downward movement on waiting lists seems to more of a trend than usual.

Yes. I know. It’s just unlucky, and had we got in on March 1st, we wouldn’t be dealing with this now.

I'm following this thread with interest.

Our situation is rather different in that we were meant to have moved house by now - end of March - so put in a late application for our catchment school as soon as we signed the rental agreement. We didn't get the catchment school and have been given one 10 miles away. As far as I can tell it would be a taxi as there isn't a bus in time in the morning - although as all the bus timetables are now the reduced service I'm not positive about this.

We haven't been given any of the schools in the town. We are 1st on the catchment school waiting list but have been advised that as the school has gone X amount over we need that number plus one to drop out before DS2 is in.

I'm assuming we will have to go to appeal as we will also be making an in-year application for another DS1 and so need DS2 in to get a place so that DS1 is in a stronger position as catchment plus sibling.

I can't liaise with the catchment school as they are now on holiday and obviously everything is up in the air with schools and council departments closed. None of this is helped by the fact that we haven't been able to move into our house but we are living at the opposite end of the country. I want the DC to settle in 'our town' as quickly and easily as possible and would like the reassurance of a school place for them as soon as possible.

Any advice about how to go about appealing - as in grounds for appeal? Moving is stressful enough at the best of times but this current situation makes the future feel really uncertain.

And does anyone know how appeals are going to be held at the current time? Is it possible to find out why the school went over the PAN and what an acceptable number is for going over? The Admissions department at the council appear to have messed up in not accepting our late application at the right time and so we were a late 'late' application and I wonder if we would have got in if we had been considered with all of the original 'lates'.