11+ Latymer Upper or North London Collegiate?

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Hi! My daughter has got offers from LU and NLCS and we’re trying to decide which school is best. She’s musical at a high level but not particularly sporty. I hear concerns about LU being too big and kids get lost and lose confidence (she’s very confident and resilient). Any views?

I'm having similar decisions to make but I can say that the music at LU seems to be absolutely incredible. I have a ds in the prep so I haven't got first hand experience but the music teachers in the Upper are extraordinarily good (shared with the prep) and there seem to be endless musical ensembles and workshops, concerts for the kids to be involved in. The standard is extremely high. I know a lot of girls who thrive in the environment there so if your dd is confident and resilient then it sounds like a very good fit. From what I hear, it's an exciting curriculum with very passionate teachers. Because it's a slightly bigger school, it seems that everyone can find their tribe and it's not cliquey. I don't know anything about NLCS.

where do you live? LU and NCLS are miles apart! I would say travel time should be a factor in your decision. Does she/you prefer co-ed or single sex? Both great schools.

Distance is not an issue as we’re probably in the middle between the two (LU has a slight edge) and I prefer co-Ed. We were leaning towards LU anyway but have heard some real concerns about the size of school and how you can become from “somebody” (in primary) to almost “nobody” when you join LU due to the size and amazing talent that exists there. She got invited for the music audition (which is good news) but didn’t get the scholarship so clearly there are many more competent kids and standards are extremely high. As long as I get some comfort that even though she’s not Top Top she’ll still be able to follow her passion and perform in music then I think LU it is...

And of course... it’s not easy to reject an offer from NLCS which is no2 in the country (just slightly behind St Paul’s), so academically NLCS is well ahead. But LU had such a more vibrant feel into it... such a tough decision. Thank you for sharing thoughts and experiences - means a lot!!

NLCS also offers the IB. Very strong music and sports, and pretty much everything else.

NLC is second on what table? I thought it was way lower (teens, still more than adequate!).

Very true - the IB is another important consideration. 👍

In LU kids cope with the size of the school by finding their ‘corner’ be it music, sports, art etc. The hesitation might be for a child who is reluctant to put themselves forward or to engage.

I doubt whether the results for an individual child would vary much. They will do best where they feel happiest.

Fyi, on The Times league table in November NLCS was #16, while LU was #27. Their A levels (A star/B) were pretty much identical (91.5% and 91.3%) but LU had 4% lower A star/A GCSEs - so you're literally talking the most fractional differences.

Definitely go w NLCS! Better school and amazing results! Unless you want co-ed?

Yes sorry... I saw this on the 2018 results (independent and state) and it read as follows “St Paul’s Girls’ School takes the top spot again this week, following its top spot in the A-Level rankings last week. Only 732 pupils in the whole country managed a “clean sweep” of ten or more A* grades, but there were 77 such pupils are North London Collegiate School, 59 at the Westminster School, and 39 at the Latymer Upper School.

That’s a really good point and a different way to think about it..: “finding their corner”.

DD moved from LU to Westminster for sixth form, partly for geographical reasons. She was in a cohort of 60 girls, Including some from just about every academic girls school in London including NLCS.

She took STEM A levels and was in no way behind others from those different schools. Indeed there was some evidence to suggest that LU was ahead of SPGS in maths teaching. And her bright engaged and hardworking friendship group at LU did particularly well in earning Oxbridge places, possibly better than her immediate Westminster peers.

LU takes in a wider spread of ability, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. Being towards the bottom of a year group in a highly selective and academic school can be a miserable place. We chose LU as DD is both maths/science and dyslexic, a profile more commonly found in boys, so we felt they would be better able to support her - which they did. (She was never going to be a 10xA* all-rounder.) We liked the way equal kudos was given to excellence in sport, music, drama etc as to academics. So an emphasis on engaging in and pursuing interests rather than just grades.

This is so helpful too and very heartening to hear as my daughter is a big maths/science/music person. Thank you all so much! The problems of first world 🤦‍♀️

OP, I don’t know what the ratios are now, but LU has always been far harder to get into for boys, as there are so few alternative boys schools in the area, and some of those have limited 11+ entry. There will be some extremely able boys in each year group.

It depends on the girl. DD was happy being amongst a relatively small number of girls in maths and science top sets. They had a real ‘girl power’ thing going on, and were prepared to ignore some of the more alpha male behaviours. This meant her move to first Westminster and then University were pretty seamless, whereas I had found the jump from an all girls school to a male dominated University course quite difficult. However it depends on the girl. Some might prefer to learn STEM in a more nurturing all girls environment away from some of the more competitive, attention seeking boys. One advantage of co-Ed is that less homework is set as otherwise some of the boys would not do it. Certainly the seeming difference in academic pressure between SPGS and LU was marked, without too big a difference in achievement.