How to choose the best from a bad bunch?

[HairySandwiches]

Hello everyone

My DS will be starting secondary school in September. Seems like a long way away but I thought I’d start having a look around but now I’m panicking a bit.

We get to choose six preferences which seems like a lot but when we’ve looked into it I don’t even think we will manage to choose six suitable ones.

Our nearest school is frankly, just appalling. 10% GCSE headline figure.

The next closest (less than quarter of a mile) is an exceptionally good CofE school which we haven’t a chance of getting (too far away, we’re not CofE and not attending feeder school).

After that we we get into a bunch of other faith schools for a variety of religions we haven’t got a chance at for same reasons as the CofE school.

The next 2 schools which we would get a place are 11% and 16% GCSE headline figures.

As it seems we are going to be choosing between 3 absolutely dreadful schools, and likelihood is that’s the one we are going to get offered even if we chance the other ones or even ones further away, does anyone have any advice on how to make a decision?

Anyone had to choose the best from a really bad bunch? Is it possible to see the good in the schools and act like it’s good if front of your DS?

I still believe that bright children from families where the parent cares, thrive anywhere. Saying that, all the schools near us are good. Most are superb.

Well at least give them all a ring. I chatted to the lady who dealt with applications and she was so incredibly nice.

The Christian teaching in our local Christian school is very mild. I don't object to the theory of 'do unto others as you'd have done to yourself', ie be nice to others. Our catholic school is quite mild religion wise. Both my boys have been very happy there, and I'm not even catholic, my Dh's family is.

Got to be worth a phone call at least.

Oh op what a terrible situation to be in. I have no advice but it is simply shocking that schools like this still exist. All of our children are worthy of a great education.

In your situation, assuming you are not going to move or try for a scholarship I would be choosing the school that has the least disruption / aggression. I don't know how you go about finding out that info other than anecdotally. Don't rule out the sikh school on grounds of religion.

You currently have plenty of time to move though so I would look at that seriously.

We are not religious but my ds belonged to the local scout group affiliated to the local church. On this basis he was offered a place at a C of E school. Is there this set up where you live?

Definitely give the 11 plus a go. We're in the same boat, our local schools are all well below average/bottom of the league tables, but ds got into a grammar with home tutoring. There's no need to pay; you can access all the practice materials yourself online or in WHSmith.

@BluebirdHill He likes music but I wouldn’t put him as exceptional, roughly a grade 2? Never done grades just plays for the enjoyment and I think it takes his mind off things. Regardless, he’s not a scholarship candidate.

He likes rugby and is part of a rugby team/club near to one of the further away schools. He knows boys who go/will go there. Seems to be a good school. No means brilliant but a lot better than our current options.

@Crawley65 He is part of a cub group (in another completely different part of the city which is just due to having to go that way for DDs club and they are on the same night). He will go to scouts in September. I didn’t realise a scout group would have any impact on school admission? I’ve never heard of that before?

@RedskyAtnight The schools have always had poor results. They don’t have a very brilliant intake. Lots of social problems, uninterested parents and some postcode wars going on in one of them (don’t know how true this is now with the new academy sponsor but historical info). They are all run by the same academy trust and there doesn’t seem to have been any improvement in any of them. In fact one seems to have got worse.

I will ring the schools and ask questions. No harm in that. I think I need to start making a list of important questions.

Definitely not ruling out the Sikh school. I looked up the values of Sikhism earlier on and I wouldn’t mind my DS having values and morals like that. There similar to the ones we live by anyways (only we don’t go for the religion part).

I think we will give the 11+ a go. Like a few have said, can do at home. DS is pretty happy to sit and look through books and do “quizzes” so he might enjoy.

I will continue my search of schools and see if there’s a little overlooked gem somewhere or whether one of our dreadful schools is actually amazing behind the scenes....

Also, just to clear it up. Not in London. More like city centre Birmingham.

We’re in Brum too @hairysandwiches. I’m guessing you’re in catchment for either KE Handsworth or Aston, I’m terms of grammar schools? The new standardised entry score isn’t unachievable with practice at home. And I suspect the actual entry score may be a little lower for Handsworth (which is where my ds goes).

I also think the Sikh school looks good. I think it’s about 90% Sikh but there is a small non Sikh minority.

Also depending on your income, consider him taking the KES exam? Their bursaries seems pretty generous. If you’re earning around £25k(I think ) he could get a free place, after that fees go up incrementally.

We’re in catchment for hansworth, although Aston and camp Hill are both closer (but we’re taking .3 and .2 of a mile so nothing really)
Why do you think the score is lower for hansworth? I thought the standardised score for all the grammars was, well, standardised at the same entry mark?

Being in a 90% Sikh/Asian/other school doesn’t bother me (and doubt it would bother DS). DS and DD are in the 10% white British in the school (and I suspect it would be lower than that if we didn’t border edgebaston and got their ‘unfortunate’ ones who move to brum mid-year). Plus, from what I’ve read about Sikh values it doesn’t seem like a hotbed of fundamentalism, seems exactly how normal people want their DCs to grow up if I’m honest.

Assuming that you don't get into any of the faith schools (although there's no harm in applying for the CofE one since it is close to you), honestly I'd go for the nearest of the rotten ones.

There doesn't seem to be all that much difference between bad and even badder, in which case go for the positive. The nearest school. Don't have to get up so early, get home quick. More time for homework, extra-curricular stuff, school clubs can be got to easily, more downtime.

Oh gosh, the combination of lots of faith schools with tough entrance criteria and grammar schools makes for a particularly toxic mix when it comes to the ‘comps’! No advice OP, just commiserations.

To explain more, the Scout group attended a service once a month at the affiliated church. Based on this the vicar was happy to write the required letter for admissions to the C of E school.

In the end ds got into a grammar school. If you go that route it is possible to do it without a tutor but definitely with parental help and guidance.

It’s only this year that the grammar entry scores have been equalised - previously Handsworth had a much lower entry score as it was less popular (due to not being KE then and also the area). Because it had a lower entry score, the range of ability was wider so GCSE results are lower - therefore it’s less popular so a bit of a vicious circle!

In theory the entry scores are equal now, but if there are places spare after the 220 plus scorers are allocated places, they will potentially take lower scores. So it’s worth a go! Handsworth is also 80-90% Asian (and we are white ) but my ds is fine there.

JassyRadlett is right. That'll be why those results seem so low.

It's a bit tough on the comps.

I think the nails been hit on the head.

Grammars + lots of faith schools + bordering edgebaston (where most will go private for secondary) = bad situation for the comps.

You might find they are not as bad as they look when you consider everything else. You mentioned one of them has a good OFSTED but the poorest results. Why don’t you have a look at that one, you might find it’s doing really well by all its pupils but it’s results are skewed because all high attainers and invested parents have been stripped away.

Another thing to consider is you have quoted the HEADLINE figures. These are looking at English AND maths at grade 5+. If there are about half with English as an additional language this may impact on that if they don’t have a good grasp of English. Have a look at how many get 4+, options available at GCSE, do the school do a breakdown of all results (might have to get this directly from the school) and how all (low, middle and high attainers) do.

Can I make an assumption you are on about City, Central and Jewellery academies?
I would consider looking further into city. I’ve been in there as part of the schools own outreach programme with my work. The school gets different people/employers involved at least once each half term. When I went we spoke to the year 10/11 about apprenticeships and with the top sets about university/further education. With the younger years we did activities related to where I work to show them the benefits of working hard and what it can lead to.
The pupils at city were all well behaved and respectful young people who were interested and inquisitive. They just maybe didn’t have the best start in life or aren’t the most academic which can all reflect in a schools results. But results don’t show the quality of the teaching.

Have you thought about looking further out at ones which aren’t in demand? Moseley? Lourdswood Boys? I don’t think there the “best” but doing better than the ones close to you.
From what I’ve heard, city is on the up. One of my friends had their DD sent there last year when they didn’t get their choices even though it’s miles away. They appealed everything but no luck and were really worried. It’s worked out ok and their DD doing fine there. They say they worried over nothing.

I'd definitely look into Lordswood Boys too - their results were really good last year and their website says they have spaces in all years, so I'm guessing that means they're not usually oversubscribed?

I don't think your situation is as bad as you think necessarily. Definitely start preparing for the 11 plus if your son is generally higher ability (broadly 'top table'). I would also look into the King Edwards School exam if your income makes you eligible for an assisted place. We went this route with our daughter and she's had an amazing education.

Highclare School in Erdington also does full bursaries/scholarships so that might be worth a look. And as previous posters have said, maybe City Academy is a better option than it looks on paper? I know nothing about the city centre schools, but you should definitely look round before dismissing them completely.

Yeah, I can see now why they might not be getting top results.

Interesting what people are saying about City Academy. I’ll definitely be looking into it. One of the three dreadful ones will have to be in the list as a banker so may as well be one that people are feeling is going in the right direction. And, as @dustibooks said, if we have to go for the worst, being closer to home has big advantages.

I’ll be looking at the other 2 dreadful ones as well. I’m not going to rule them out because as many have said. Need to go round them and ask questions first.

@Crawley65 that’s good to know. I think the CofE will definitely be going on the preferences even if it is a shot in the dark. If we can use scout church attendance towards it then that would be really helpful for us. I’ll have to see if we can do that.

@crazycrofter as you say, no harm in trying for hansworth. I couldn’t say where in the ability range he is. He’s a top table kind of child but the demographics of the primary school might be skewing this. But yeah, will give it a go at home.
Also, thanks for the advice about king Edwards. We would definitely have to have an assisted place so I’m assuming that means he would have to apply for scholarships? I’ll look into it anyways. I’ll also look into Highclaire.

@mmmmmmcheeeesssseeee (and @Neim) that’s wonderful in-site to what’s going on in City Academy. Also, I will be looking for further away schools but thanks for the starter (might start a new thread and ask which people all over brum recommend). I’d thought about Mosley but not Lourdswood.

Thanks everyone. Feeling a bit more reassured and know what needs to be done. Still a bit worried but I can see it might not be as bad as I first thought.

@hairydandwiches for KES, as long as you fit the criteria (income under £70kish) and tick the assisted place box on the application form he will be considered. Assisted places are awarded to those who fit this criteria - I assume in order of performance until the money is allocated.

Scholarships are separate - they’re open to everyone regardless of income so they’re more competitive. They award them to the top scorers regardless of parental income. So it is possible to get both.

Have a look at the scale of fees on their website to see how much you’d be paying if he got an assisted place as it’s based on your income. If your income is low enough to qualify for a 100% assisted place you also get free meals, transport and uniform so it’s a very good deal.

Sorry to drop a bomb on you. I know I said yesterday that City was on the up and my friends DD has had no problems and doing fine there. But found out from them today that they are going to merge City and Central. They were told end of last week. They have a consultation at the end of the month. You might want to go if your considering these schools?
www.core-education.co.uk/academy-merger-consultation/
(Yes, I’m nosey, I had to consult google to find out what was happening )
My friend seems to think it could be a good thing to bring the best of the two schools together with better facilities. She doesn’t think it would affect her DD too much and she might benefit so don’t let it put you off. But your better prepared to make decisions if you know what’s going on.

I'd be asking questions about streaming/setting. If everything is mixed ability and low performing then i'd avoid.

Averages aren't that helpful and as others have said if they have lost the high performers/invested parents that skews down the results massively and isn't necessarily a reflection of teaching.

OP Given your DS is musical, is there a church choir he could join? If it’s a good one (ask around local music teachers) he would get a musical education for free, and it would mean he also filled the CofE attendance criteria. Certainly around here (London) there’s no obligation for the choristers to be Christian, as long as they are prepared to sing and be respectful in services, and the musical education is brilliant.

@hairysandwiches if the previous poster is right - there’s the cathedral choir. A friend’s boys are in it and really enjoy it. It’s a big commitment though - three evenings a week (til 6.15 I think) plus Sundays. The musical education is a bonus though - they have theory lessons.

@crazycrofter Excellent advice about KES. Will certainly be applying. I looked into their assisted places scheme. It’s amazing! I see no harm in applying for a place at all. If he gets a place that will be an amazing education he will get that I never thought possible. Thanks so much.
And thank you for the pointer towards the cathedral choir.

@HighRopes Thank you for that advice about the choir. I will look into it properly. Not too sure how he would take to 3 evenings and sundays of choir. Especially if he has to give something up (he’s a pianist not a singer but he likes singing along to all the songs he learns so... who knows) but I can only ask him if he’s interested. If he is it could be a winner for the CofE school and his music in general. If not I won’t force him.

@mmmmmmcheeeesssseeee Thank you for the heads up and the link to the dates. I’ll see if I can go along (even if I’m not a “parent of a pupil”).

@TeddTess I shall bear that in mind when I’m looking at all the schools. That’s good advice.