A'level Choices for a Y11 aspiring medic

[sydenhamhiller]

Hi All, am hoping for the usual sound advice dispensed here.

DS is in Y11, and we went to his school's 'picking your A level options' night last night. He has wanted to be a doctor since about y9. We are not a family of medics/ nurses, we have no idea where this has come from: we have taken him to see Adam Kaye, discussed the challenges of getting into medical school, getting the grades, the long hours, the many years of study, and the precarious state of the NHS.But to his credit, he remains committed, goes to St John's Ambulance, is about to start volunteering at our local care home etc.

He was thinking of doing the three sciences and Latin (which he loves). And then last night the Head of Physics said in his pitch 'oh, and I would not recommend doing Physics A'level if you are not taking Maths'. Which makes complete sense. But DS - who is very good at Maths, and predicted an 8/9 - does not want to do maths if he help it. So at the end, we stayed behind and explained his particular circumstances to the HoD.

HoD was very nice, but said 'well medicine IS very competitive' and it is probably best to keep your options open, so I really would do Maths and keep those options open'.

DS's school LOVES maths. About 55% of their 6th form does Maths for A'level, if not more. They are the largest department by far. So there is a massive maths culture. But the HT, Head of 6th form, and Deputy, and even Head of Maths had all said 'do the subjects you love and enjoy'. And DS does not love maths. And does love Latin...

So he thought he might do Biology, Chemistry, Latin and Classical Civilisation - as many med schools ask for Chemistry and one other science. We're looking through the admissions criteria, and the Oxbridge colleges in particular do like 3 sciences and/or 2 and maths, so he would be closing some doors.

I guess what I am asking is: did anyone have children who got into medical school with just 2 science A'levels, and a subject they really really love that wasn't related? Am I being a terrible parent, and really naive in not just saying 'ah well, this is the price of wanting to be a doctor, you'll have to do A'level maths'. Reading about entry criteria, whilst Med Schools say they want 'people persons', and be able to talk about other interests etc, it does seem counter productive if all applicants have exactly the same 4 A levels.

I don't know anything about this, but there is a thread on the Higher Education board about students applying for Medicine 2021... It might be worth a read and they may be able to help

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/3755607-Medicine-2021

OP nearly all medical schools require Chemistry A level and Biology is then the second most common subject.
The other subject can be anything really, the most important thing is getting high grades A or A* and it is much harder to obtain the highest grades in A level Physics without Maths.

A level Chemistry approx 20% Maths, Biology 10% but Physics is 30%.
If he changes his mind about medicine there are plenty of other options with his A level choices.
Most other degree options for Physics you require Maths A level e.g. Engineeering.

Every single medical school has a slightly different way of assessing who to call for an interview. But more and more the initial cut is based purely on academics. Many don’t look at personal statements at all until later in the process. Pretty much everyone applying will be predicted 3 As or higher.

So obviously you need to check the medical school’s admissions criteria in terms of which subjects are compulsory, you also need to ensure your dc is going to take A Levels that they can get A or higher in. (Or predictions at those grades at least).

My dd did Maths, Biology & Chemistry. She got interviewed everywhere she applied to & got 3 offers. Probably the same combination as most applicants but worked for her.

I think physics/chemistry/biology/latin would be better than replacing physics with classical civilisation.

I would talk again to the physics HoD - although their top recommendation would be to do maths as well, if your son has no intention of doing maths, what you need is an answer to the question "how much of a problem is it going to be doing physics without maths?" If it's just a case of "you'll need to be willing to put in a few hours learning a couple of bits of maths that we don't bother teaching in physics because most people do them in maths anyway", then it needn't be a big deal. You might want to be prepared to get a few sessions with a tutor if the school is unhelpful about providing that help in-house.

I really would think carefully before electing to do 4 A Levels. The new linear curriculum is much more demanding.

DD has been told to do 3 (Chem, Bio + 1 other) or 4 (Chem, Bio, Maths + Further Maths) and then an EPQ or MOOC that shows their broader interest in Medicine (Ethics? Forensics?).

The most important thing is Chemistry and the second is attaining a prediction of at least 2 A stars and one A, according to her school.

My DD (also Yr11) will be taking Biology, Chemistry and Maths. She looked at the idea of doing a 4th, possibly psychology or further maths but every college we went to strongly advised against it. We've been told to focus on getting 3 A/A*s rather than risking 4 lower grades.

Forgot to say (but Kings post prompted me) she'll also be doing EPQ and DofE Gold at college.

Bio and Chem is essential as you know. I know they have taken English as the third option too.

The GCSEs for all subjects will all need to be 8s and above unless a contextual school. It is competitive but why not him? Good luck!

Response from DS2 (grade 9 Maths GCSE / A* FM, A levels Physics, Maths, Eng.lit. and Art and no desire at all to study Medicine) to the question, How difficult would you find Physics if you didn't also do Maths? was that so far, the greatest overlap has been the equations of motion and they did it in Physics before they did it in Maths, no issues.

Caveat, he is only in year 12, so no idea whether he may come across problems in the second year of the course.

Biology, Chemistry and Maths is the usual combination for getting into Medicine but Maths isn’t essential. When I was at Uni studying Medicine though, everyone who didn’t do Maths A Level had to do a Maths for Biologists module.

I think though since high grades is the most important factor in getting in, he should do whichever subjects in addition to Biology and Chemistry he is most likely to get the highest grades in. I would suggest only doing 3 A levels but getting as much extra-curricular experience as possible- hospital work experience, medical research labs, summer schools.

He needs to look at admission criteria for universities.
My daughters medical school required chemistry, one other science or maths and a third from any subject. A requirement was maths to AS if not taken to A2 but that will have changed.
Amongst her friends the third subject included theology, psychology, languages, history and geography. It definitely helped to show a breadth of ability and interest.
He needs to be thinking about building up his work experience portfolio too.
The sooner he starts practicing psychometric tests the better. You can buy really good practice books. It helps to have a mentor if you’re applying from state schools as few can offer the right level of knowledge and support.

My daughter did Chemistry, Biology and Physics.....good luck with your DS.

summerschools.suttontrust.com/browse-courses/
www.uniq.ox.ac.uk/courses#
in2scienceuk.org/
www.nuffieldfoundation.org/students-teachers/nuffield-research-placements/
www.bma.org.uk/advice/career/studying-medicine/becoming-a-doctor/widening-participation
www.imperial.ac.uk/be-inspired/student-recruitment-and-outreach/schools-and-colleges/students/on-campus-activities/summer-schools/medical/

@noblegiraffe is a maths teacher who always gives excellent advice. Hope she doesn't mind me giving her a namecheck.

Here are the med school entry requirements for 2020:

www.medschools.ac.uk/media/2357/msc-entry-requirements-for-uk-medical-schools.pdf

You can also find the interview selection criteria for each med school online eg Kings College is 50% GCSE results 50% UCAT score, St George's have a huge emphasis on work experience. It's possibly worth looking at the med schools he might want to apply to, the courses are very different (dissection or not, PBL etc), then looking at their A-level requirements/preferences. Most successful Cambridge applicants have maths A-level. UCL used to prefer the third A level not to be a science.

I would question whether it is a good idea to take 4 A-levels, it might be better to concentrate on getting top grades in 3 subjects. If your DS is applying to med schools where he needs to sit the UCAT and BMAT exams in year 13, preparing for interviews, and getting the work experience required, it is a lot of work on top of academic study.

Oh thanks all, that’s really helpful.

Sorry I wasn’t clear (my rambling epic): at DS’s school they pick 4 subjects, 3 for A level and 1 for AS, so they only have 3 subjects in year 13.

He was going to do 3 sciences, but the Physics teacher at his school does not let y11s pick Physics without Maths, so Physics is out. And DS is expected to get 9s in everything except DT.

So then that would mean doing Chem, Bio and Maths at A level (with Latin on the side as AS)... which is not really what DD wants.

I’ve looked at admissions criteria again, and med schools at Imperial and Edinburgh for example require Chemistry, Biology and any other, so that’s quite comforting. We’d be shutting the door on Cambridge, for example, but there are plenty that he could apply for...

I’ll go and lurk on the HE board - thanks for that x

Could he do maths as the AS level? Noble giraffe could probably tell you if that would cover the maths needed for the physics syllabus. Would he be allowed to take physics if he did that? Plus maths is actually very useful at med school.

If you look at the link I posted, I don't think anywhere requires a third science or maths. Even Cambridge doesn't require it at all the colleges, so it isn't totally ruled out

I'm old (pre AS but with modules) but loads of my school colleagues did all 3 sciences at A-level without Maths. Probably the most common choice for those planning on careers in medicine in fact.

They did have to do 'maths for scientists' lessons at some point. So teacher's attitude seems very weird!

Our successful medical applicants have all done Biology and Chemistry but the third subject has varied hugely. Maths, English Literature, Psychology and History have all featured.

Offers from Edinburgh and St. George's
A levels chemistry,biology,Latin

I have 2 dc in different med schools. Both did biology and chemistry and a different one in line with their best /favourite subjects.
Most if not all med schools require chemistry and quite a few but not all require biology.
With regard to other A level choice I would say chose something they enjoy and will achieve well. Some will accept an Extended project EPQ. Med schools will usually not give credit for maths and further maths so that’s a no no, but otherwise I think any other academic subject so It’s a no to general studies etc.
I haven’t read all the posts above so not sure if ops have suggested this but I would recommend you and him take a look at the student room web site they usually have dedicated forum posts on this issue going back a few years. Also there is a site - name escapes me which summarises each medical school’s requirements.

There are some new med schools recently taking admissions so things may have changed a little in the last few years.

Some med schools also do 6 year courses for students with no science /relevant a levels but I believe admission numbers are low and required grades are very high.

Sorry OP but I am confused. You keep saying physics is out because your DS doesn't want to do maths. I get that bit.

But then you said he is expected to do 4 and drop one and say these 4 are bio, chem and maths with Latin. I thought he didn't want to do maths so why is it there?

On a side note, exam boards are beginning to even discontinue ASs in some subjects so no idea why some schools are still clinging on to them.

The death of AS followed by A2 and the downfall f 4 subjects ahs really led to a narrowing of study so siphoned people into being 'all sciences' quite often. It's a shame. I agree with you about the death of the humanities. Even bigger problem in languages and the Arts!

Another one of those ‘unintended consequences’ piggy...

I sometimes wonder whether it was entirely unintended , she says darkly....

Thanks everyone again - hugely reassured by those stories of applicants with Chemistry, Biology and a non-related A level.

I know some schools will let students do Physics without Maths, but sadly not DS’s school. I just mentioned the maths again because both the Physics HoD and Head of 6th form said ‘ooh, Med school is very competitive, you should do Chem, Bio and Maths, as maths will be a great subject to fall back on’.

So on Friday DS was feeling very pressurised to take Maths, but his dream team pick at the mo would be Chem, Bio, Latin, with Classical Civilisation as AS.

We’ve looked at admissions criteria for various med schools, and we’d be closing the door on some Cambridge med schools, but generally speaking it seems that all specify Chemistry, most seem to specificy Chemistry and Biology, and only a few say Bio, Chem and Physics Or Maths.

DS is a studious soul, and due a clutch of 9s - even an 8 for DT (his arch nemesis) - but I don’t think he was looking at Cambs, so whilst it may close some doors it’s not the end of world, and we’d really like him to be able to do subjects he loves. (And keep the lovely Latin department going - only 3 took it to A level this year...)

Thanks so much for all the helpful advice and feedback, it is much appreciated.