Schools - I'm begining to believe they treat our kids like a financial transaction

[sammyjguru]

Does anyone out there have concerns about the advice being given to their child about their future careers? Both of my children are at this crucial stage and I became uncomfortable when the more academic one was being put under pressure to go into 6th form - I spoke to some of my friends and they shared this concern with their own experiences, I've delved into this more and there is a growing pattern/concern that our children may be being given advice that is in the best interests of the school and not for the student - anyone else share my concern or had a similar experience?

OP, you don't get to say

the spiteful behaviour of the participants

and

I wouldn't agree with the 'friendly bunch'

and then

please be patient and try and imagine me with a big L Plate on my back whilst I'm navigating my way through

followed by lots of requests for

example please?

because it makes you seem very rude, and coupled with your use of capitals you haven't come across well at all.

Also, a school with a sixth form is bound to recommend children stay on there, if they're academically suited

I didn't rely on schools or connexions to educate my children on careers.
We did it ourselves as parents. Once a week from being about 13.
Why can't you do it yourself? Stop expecting others to do things that are so important to your children.

My concern with starting an apprenticeship at 16 is that is a very young age to start working. These kids will probably have to work into their 70s so surely they shouldn’t have to start quite so young.

Also I teach in a secondary school and the majority of 16 year olds can appear quite silly at times. Expecting them to manage in a work situation would be tough.

Give them a few more years to mature, surely.

Careers services in schools are patchy

^^ This I think is very true.

DD1 been pointed into the direction of computer program to suggest carrers and options and the school has hosted a little careers fair - but I think there are limited in what advice they can offer.

Regarding sixth form - I would expect the school to promote their sixth form as they need the numbers to run course.

My DC secondary offers a very limited choice of A-levels so we've been searching into other options for A-levels.

So no I don't think you can rely on the school for all options -not least because staff may well not be aware of all of them.

It was the same when I was at school, career advice poor and given by a teacher who just had it dumped on them. I was left without a clue what to do or how to get there, how uni was funded or what options were available.

As a result many of my friends went to uni to do whatever, they stayed on at a levels because that’s what you did and did enough to keep their parents bank rolling them and adult life further at bay.

Whilst your rightly angry, as there’s many kids with uninvolved parents who won’t assist them in opening their horizons and seeing what is available. I’m not entirely sure where I sit on this being the schools remit though. Are we to start suing them for mis selling out education and future?

ensure they meet the legal obligations to deliver the Gatsby Benchmarks, the Baker Clause AND September 2019 the Education Inspection Framework guidelines set out by Ofsted

There is no legal obligation to deliver the Gatsby Benchmarks. They are not a statutory framework. Using them ensures the school fulfills its legal duties but it is not a requirement. They can fulfil their legal duties without using the Gatsby Benchmarks.

The Baker Clause requires schools to give providers the opportunity to talk to pupils about approved technical qualifications and apprenticeships. Note that there is no requirement for schools to seek out such providers, nor is there any requirement for providers to talk to pupils, so the lack of any such discussions does not necessarily mean the school is failing to meet its legal obligations. Having said that, a few weeks ago a survey of 101 secondary schools by the IPPR found that two-thirds of them were in breach of the Baker Clause.

I'm not sure where you think the Education Inspection Framework Guidelines come into this. It defines how Ofsted inspect schools. It does not include any legal requirements that schools must comply with regarding careers advice.

*OP
*
I'm confused when you say it's not about your child when in your OP you said this;

Both of my children are at this crucial stage and I became uncomfortable when the more academic one was being put under pressure to go into 6th form"

Not a parent or a teacher but I’ve worked with A-Level and BTEC students for the last few years and we have had a number of apprentices with entry routes at 16, 18 and an apprentice of 23 (I think).

My work is not going to be paying our apprentices more than minimum wage. However, they have taken them on after their apprenticeship and developed them, even if the development hasn’t always been what the apprentice was looking for. The upside of the apprenticeship in our place is that it really has developed the apprentices, helped to grow their confidence (or in some cases made them less of a ‘lad’). The downside is that they have been pigeon holed into something they might not want to stay in for the duration of their working lives as they have some very specific skills. I’ve spoken with our apprentices and the reason they ended up here was because our scheme opened before some of the others and they wanted an apprenticeship. And they wanted a short commute. They weren’t specially looking for a career in our industry.

From working with 16-18 year olds for the last few years, my opinion is that the best time to enter an apprenticeship is at 18. Now obviously, that isn’t the case for everyone and there will always be students who cannot deal with the classroom environment. On the whole, the apprentices that have started at 18 have had a much greater maturity to them, than those who started at 16. The apprentices who have entered at 18 have come from BTEC and A-Level backgrounds but those two years just gives them the ability to be a bit more secure in their reasoning and ability to advocate for themselves more. If at 16, they are able to advocate for themselves, it’s usually a bit too cocky and not the professional way to advocate for yourself in your career. Our apprentices who entered the organisation at 18 are a lot more professionally capable despite following the same programme and, if they want to stay here, they’ll go far in this company. Our apprentices who started at 16, whilst on permanent contracts they still need a lot more development and hand holding than our other apprentices.

Your child needs to do what is best for them, which might not be what you think is best for them. My school didn’t have a sixth form but they recommended me going to the local college for which they were a feeder school. I (and my friends) all decided we needed more formality than the college offered, so against the advice of teachers we went to local sixth forms.

@Knighlight
There was never any indication that she has not spoken to her child, the most likely scenario is she has begun this discussion after concerns about the pushing of her child to do sixth form, despite, after clear displays of her own experience, knowing that there are other alternatives. It seems we are all ignoring the theme of this post due to our own brainwashing as students, myself included, to do sixth form, whereas, after doing some general googling, I have found that are many other better options for our children. I think we fail to remember that this app isn't about proving to others what great parents we are it's about learning from others to fully understand what is best for your child.

It's very clear that a lot of people haven't actually read this post or researched their opinions accordingly, from what it sounds like we have all had this idea of sixth form being the best and only path to take embedded into our minds. Another clear example of people not wanting to be wrong. I think we need to stop arguing against people's points because they go against your own ideas, all because you want to be perceived as a great parent, and actually start listening to one another to ensure we can provide the best for our child.

Schools are very hard up for funding.
The more students that attend 6th Form, the more funds they have.

Incentive to get students to stay, even if it's not the best option for them - of course there's an incentive. It's not rocket science.

Therefore as parents YOU have to ensure they receive full information to make an informed choice and not rely on the school providing the full picture. Plenty of parental research is needed.

Often A Levels at a school 6th Form will be the best option - clearly not always though. Make sure you research all the options and the knock-on consequences to the next stages of education of choosing them.

Actually I agree somewhat.
I wish I could steer my child away from this trajectory, but the school really push it.
I’d much rather good quality apprenticeships or even plain full time entry level jobs were recommended to capable kids (not just the ones who won’t make the academic grades).
The debt that they’re (we’re) encouraged to take on is just ridiculous.

I don’t think you can get a plain full time entry level job at 16. I may well be wrong though.

My son's school has a 6th form. He is yr11 so GCSEs this year. The school has organised careers fairs with employers, colleges, universities all attending and taken them to open days at the local colleges. Some apprenticeships start at 16, the ones my son is interested in will be 18 or 21. My son could stay at school or go to college to fill in the 2 years. His school are delighted for him that he has been offered a place at his college of choice

Probably that’s the case now @CuckooCuckooClock.
It’s a shame though.

My year 11 Ds has had zero careers advice or support. His school have done nothing to encourage him to stay on at their sixth form even though he is one of their higher achieving students.

Ds would have really benefited from some careers advice at school as he has SEN. Instead not one member of staff has even asked him about his plans. We are encouraging him to move to a smaller sixth form whose results are not so impressive but have far better pastoral care, which is what he needs at the moment.

I think it varies very much depending on where you live. It is very difficult to access good apprenticeships outside of cities. I did an apprenticeship instead of a levels in 2010 and I remember everyone thinking I was crazy. This was London so it wasn't even middle of nowhere. It takes time to change people's attitudes and I got crap from my teachers because they thought I was throwing my life away.
My cousin did v v well in his GCSEs and decided to go straight into a landscaping apprenticeship. His school treated him in a similar way so I do think there are preconceptions regarding apprenticeships and them being a fall back rather than something that is impressive. Some apprenticeships are really really difficult to get a space on.

People don't use emojis much on MN.