Should we pay 3x our current house price for a top 20 independent school, or stay put and have our children attend a top 275 school?

[Keto481]

Our two children have been accepted at two independent senior schools and our options are as follows:

Option 1 - Continue to live in our current home and send our children to the local independent, which features towards the latter end of the top 275 independent schools nationally. The performance at A levels is obviously better than our local state schools, but hardly any pupils go on to Oxbridge. (Not that we are aiming for Oxbridge, but I am just trying to give an idea of it's performance). This option will allow us to live comfortably financially as we have substantial savings.

Option 2 - Roughly an hours drive away is a school which year on year features in the top 20 independent schools nationally with the highest performance in the region, and I believe around 15% go on to Oxbridge. To live in this area, house prices are triple the cost of our current home. Due to our savings we can afford this, but we would be left with very little savings and have to live a significantly less comfortable life.

The areas in between where we currently live and the top 20 school are not areas where we want to live. If our children were to catch the train from where we live to the top 20 school it would be over 1 hour and a half each way and we do not want them to have to endure that journey.

So I ask is it better to have the financial security and have our children go to the local independent and I assume not perform as well. Or to move home and not have the financial security, but have our children attend the top 20 school In the hopes they will perform significantly better?

So basically you have the choice between a lot of hassle, moving away from an area and presumably people you know and spending all your savings.
Or not doing this.

And the choice between a good school and another good school.

I can't actually understand your problem.

You do realise that just because a school gets better academic results, it doesn't mean that your child will get better academic results if they go there? Just that they have a more able intake.

and that because a school is higher up some list doesn't mean that your child will settle in and do any better there?

There is not one single point in your post about why you think the top 20 school is better for your child. Perhaps that is the thing to focus on? and then decide whether the value of that is worth the cost?

I forgot to add, that the area with the top 20 school is significantly nicer than where we currently live, hence the high house prices. It is very desirable and extremely sought after, so there are other benefits to the move. My husband and I don't mind moving house, it is just whether putting all our savings into a property is worth the difference in school.

How much of the better performance at the top 20 school driven by selecting very bright kids who would do well regardless of whether they went to a top 20 or top 200 school? Probably impossible to measure but I wonder if selection rather than genuine value add drives the difference in results (not knowing the specific schools here).

What about other factors, such as sports and extra-curricular activities? What is the ethos like at both schools?

Which schools are they? If you let us know, someone will likely be able to give you some insider information which could help you in the decision making process

Regarding the top 20 school not meaning that our children will get better results, whilst I somewhat agree I do feel there must be something in near 98% getting A*-B A levels vs 60ish% at the top 275 school or is this not the case? I do truly believe the school plays a huge factor in that.

The facilities, activities, pastoral care etc are all better at the top 20 school in my opinion.

The highest performing schools generally do it not only by selective entry but by removing kids from the roll often at crucial times, even entering them for exams privately so they don't bring down that mark. Pastoral care matters as does the right feel for your dc. As many of us had no choice but comprehensives, it comes across as very pushy to be deliberating over two excellent options

What do your dcs think about these options? I would want to be sure that they were on board with whatever decision was being made. I'd echo what ops have said too - top 20 school doesn't necessarily mean best school for your child!

I'd suggest the difference between 98% A-B (do you mean A-A??) and 60% A*-B is almost entirely due to the 98% school selecting a smaller proportion of the ability range.

If you're just looking at results (which is what your first post suggested) then your children are likely to do well at either school and also likely to achieve their potential at either school. Of course, their individual personalities might mean that they do better in one or other of the schools. Not all children do well in very academic schools, for example.

okiedokieme i apologise if my post comes off as very pushy deliberating over two excellent options as that was not my intention. I am well aware that this is a first world problem and that there are far more important things going on in the world.

I just thought this forum was for those who cared about their childrens education regardless of their situation, and that others would be more experienced and informed and could assist me in making such a decision.

If you chooose school 1 and Oxbridge does turn out to be on the cards, for sixth form you might want to consider a state sixth form college. A private school with a low record on Oxbridge has all the statistical disadvantages for the university of accepting another private school pupil, but disadvantage for the pupil of teachers with less experience in preparing pupils for the interviews and entrance papers, offering guidance about which colleges and so on. Though it may depend how the universities are counting school type in a few years time - if it's just whether the student is coming stright from private or state, or if they ever went to a private school/where they did their GCSEs.

The national top 20 school might be a stressful hothouse - and especially if kids don't seem likely Oxbridge material already then perhaps it will be too much. (The friends' kids I'm aware of who actually enjoy these places are very advanced academically.) They might get so stressed they perform less well than they would have with a lower pressure environment. And if it's girls, eating disorders and self-harm are rife in a lot of top academic schools. They may get great results academically but also other lasting problems. Friend in her 40s went to one and she feels like she's been teetering on the edge of an eating disorder her whole adult life, can't try exclusion diets she's supposed to for other health issues as she worries it would set it off.

As previously stated, knowing the schools would help, all schools top 20 or not have foibles. Two of my DC attend a top 20, 2 do not as it would not have been the right choice for them.
Lots of parents on MN have children at great schools state & private country wide. Let us know, we might be able to help.

i have one child in a "top ten" indie school and another in an indie school ranked about 250 ish...
Facility-wise both schools are amazing, nothing to choose between them. In terms of teaching, attitiude, expecations, breadth of curriculum, pastoral and all the rest there is nothing to choose between the two. My dd in top 10 school would thrive in her brother's school (I wouldn't move her because she was there before him and is happy). The difference in terms of these two school's results is purely and simply the more selective nature of their cohort. DS school has a broader range of ability. I am confident that DD would do just as well in the "less academic" exam results and league tables are more a reflection of the selectiveness of the cohort than the quality of education!

Option 1.

I take it your more local option is entirely non selective academically to be so far down the table. If you are happy with an non selective school, is there not a suitable state option locally?

What do you like about the local school? Do you feel it would suit them?

Personally I don't feel that choosing a school based on results is the way to go. If your child is happy they will do better than if they are miserable in a high pressure environment. However you do want them to fulfill their potential and to be so far down this table is a bit concerning. I had a quick look and the school that is 250th (one one of the tables) only got about 6% A* - A which doesn't sound very encouraging at all!

take your point countessdracula... perhaps my ds school isn't 250th ish.. must be higher, as their a* a % is much better than that..
I do maintain, however that the quality of a school and its education isn't about the league tables. What is important is how you feel about a school, they all have different personalities. To move for a school, especially under these circumstances, you must feel really feel it to be a good fit for your DCs

Just wondering if these Independent schools are in Kent Op? We have a friend in a similar situation......

OP you do have a misconception the the higher attainment at the top 20 school is 'mainly' because it is a better school. It will definitely be 'mainly' because it is more selective. It may also 'weed out' after GCSE- many schools keep this quiet.

Part of it's success may be due to applying more academic pressure, or 'hot housing', and you may or may not want that for your children.

However, with supportive, educated, financially secure parents, the school you chose out of the two described will not make a 'significant' difference to how your individual children attain.

The facilities, activities, pastoral care etc are all better at the top 20 school in my opinion

Will you be able to afford all the extra curricular activities ....or will the DC have to miss out?

What table are you looking at Countess? I'd have expected a top 250 school to be getting 30-40% A-A* at least. Of course lots of independent schools take iGCSEs rather than GCSEs, so if you looked at a table that just considered GCSE that would skew the picture somewhat.

If you’re local independent is mediocre, is it worth paying for at all? What’s the state option like in comparison? I’m not sure i would want to fork out a lot of cash for just okay.

At the more expensive option, will you still be able to pay for extra curricular activities, family experiences and holidays, university fees, savings to help them get on the property ladder after uni? If no, then stay where you are, as all those things are a more valuable contribution to their overall quality of life than attending a more selective school would be.

It's a significant move to go somewhere an hour's drive away. Is it worth it? What about your children's friends - will they be happy to leave them? What about your friends, jobs, social life?

I think people get very over-excited about school league tables. They really need to calm down.

I was looking at A levels, not GCSEs. Re Oxbridge etc I thought that was what the OP was looking at!

How clever are your kids?

Very clever - stick with the good school, they'll get top grades. If you are looking for Oxbridge then get on it early with summer school courses run by the top unis.

Cleverish, but not setting the world on fire - maybe move schools, they'll probably hot house into higher grades than they would get elsewhere. Bear in mind they may sink at uni though (seen this lots).

Not clever at all really - stay put. They'll probably be managed out of the top school, and if not, they'll spend their childhood feeling stupid compared to everyone else.

How many from apparently higher achieving school leave after GCSEs? I strongly suspect that if you moved heaven and earth to get them into the top 20 school, if your kids weren't quite Oxbridge material, they'd be out of their ear.

Don't kid yourself the difference between a top 20 independent and a top 275 one will make two or three grades difference at A level. It won't. Save your cash.