What are the benefits of a language GCSE if you’re not going to study languages further?

[Rollergirl11]

DD is in the process of choosing her options for GCSE’s. She is top set for all subjects. She is torn whether to take Spanish or not. She is very good at it but she doesn’t enjoy it and has no plans to go further in study or career wise with a language. I am saying that it is always good to have a language so why not. And it has now been made compulsory to take a language GCSE from now on in my sons year (Year 7) so my son will have to take one. Will it ever be a detriment to DD if she doesn’t have a language?

Also she is keen to take both Geography and History but a lot of her friends are saying taking both is too much work. Does anyone know if this is true? We have an Options evening next week so can ask all these questions then but thought I’d see if Mumsnet had any advice!

This is the Add Maths our school do -www.ocr.org.uk/qualifications/fsmq/additional-mathematics/

My DD is very mathematical and current plan is for degree in maths and definitely maths and FM at A Level. Obviously degree may change.

Yes, 3 humanities is too many really with no MFL. I would do the MFL and not Business. Business can be done at A level without the GCSE. History might be better if she prefers English. I have not seen Busniess excluded anywhere but if she did two academic inclined A levels it would be fine for that type of degree.

If the choice is between Business Studies and Spanish, I'd go for the Spanish every time - it's better regarded as a serious GCSE.

DD1 did RE, History and Geography, but under the old syllabus - DD2 wasn't offered RE GCSE because school couldn't hang on to its RE teachers . She did do both History and Geography and loved both, is doing History A level now. They are both content heavy subjects, but your DD sounds very bright. She'll cope if she likes both subjects.

Is the business studies a GCSE and do the school get good results? Our school have it as a Btech with no high grades obtained. DD takes it now but won't to GCSE as she needs 8s and 9s.

Last two years highest languages grades have been 7s and ours have a lot of teachers covering who speak no French - DD had a year like that and this year its half the year no teacher, sit in library in theory learning German from scratch. When she was at grammar languages where her best subjects but now its gone to maths. it's worth seeing grades by subject if you need high grades as well as predictions.

Maybe worth thinking more about degrees - I did Economics and that use history, geography, stats, maths, business studies a little overlap though can be taken up at A Level without any of those.

My daughter currently does German and Spanish. I am encouraging her to do both as she loves it and is her best grades. I think it could be so useful.

The preferred list is A Levels. And all of them are fine in combination with more traditional subjects.

I think Languages are brilliant, too - but, OP, as for your original question, you could genuinely ask that about almost any subject, really.

As the parent of a modern languages university student I would suggest to your daughter that if the subject is easy for her then to consider taking it, my son took German as part of his baccalaureate which was compulsory in his school, he had long term plans to take sciences for A level but something clicked in year 10 and he continued his language into A level and after work experience he decided to follow that path. Like most boys he is exceptionally competent in all computer related issues and therefore he decided that he would find it easier to get a job...'in computers' being able to speak a further language fluently than not. I would obviously suggest your daughter follows her heart but I do think languages become more interesting during Gcse/Alevel studies.

just to provide some sense about UCL. From the horse's mouth:

www.ucl.ac.uk/prospective-students/undergraduate/application/entry-requirements/level-and-gcse-qualifications

GCSE foreign language requirement
UCL encourages intercultural awareness in all its students, and considers experience of learning a foreign language a vital element of a broad and balanced education. We wish to ensure that all of our graduates have had some experience of exploring another culture through language - but we are concerned to ensure that our admissions requirements do not disadvantage those who did not undertake language study to GCSE or above at school.

UK students who do not have a GCSE grade 5 (or grade C) or equivalent in a foreign language (other than Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew or Latin) on admission to UCL will be required to acquire an equivalent level of language proficiency once they are enrolled with us.

That said with a MFL at degree I'd heartily endorse one, or more! for GCSE

All three of mine took both History & Geography, the third sat GCSEs last year. None found the combination overly onerous - but all three had an active interest in both - all did / doing both of these at A level.

The ops DD is looking at History, Geography and RE. That’s 3 humanities. Without a MFL, it’s too many. There is no art based GCSE either. Business isn’t really needed at GCSE because it can be studied later very easily. No one requires a MFL but if DCs add a MFL into their degree and go for joint honours, universities will be quite interested in having you to keep MFL departments open!

Nope, no artistic subject. DD briefly considered Graphics as her teacher said that she was good and would do well. But she’s not that creative and she thought there may be a possibility that she wouldn’t get as good a grade as for her other subjects, therefore what would be the point of taking it.

Bubbles: do you think 3 humanities is okay with an MFL to balance it out?

It's easier to learn a language when you are younger. When you have language skills, it is easier to comprehend other languages and learn new ones when you are older. It's about moulding young minds for adapting rather than being able to converse in one language

Just throwing my 2 cents in, but I would encourage a language. English isn’t the only language spoken and we should make more of an effort in this country and not rely on other countries closing the communication gap for us.

To be honest, and I know it isn't the received wisdom currently, I think language GCSEs are vastly over rated. Actually being able to speak more than one language, especially if it is a widely spoken one, would be very useful, but in all honesty, the basic level of proficiency gained at GCSE is pretty useless.
I got A grades (in the days before A*) at O level level in both French and German and found them both very easy. I wouldn't claim to really be able to speak either language though and apart from reading menus and train timetables etc on holiday I wouldn't say they had added anything greatly to my life. When I have been to countries where I don't speak the language I find I manage almost as easily, thanks to online translation apps. I suppose it could be argued that having studied other languages probably helps me though, so maybe there was a marginal benefit. I didn't mind doing them, in fact I quite enjoyed the lessons and I would have had to do geography otherwise, so I don't regret it, but I wouldn't push a child who really disliked languages into doing them.
Our school now insists that all children take EBacc qualifying subjects at GCSE unless there are exceptional circumstances so my youngest son, much to his annoyance,is forced to do one language. He will probably get an acceptable grade but I think he would do better at some other subjects so I am not terribly pleased.
If modern languages were taught properly in this country, like English is taught in much of the rest of the world, then I would be all for it. But the current system is very poor, with most children not starting to learn languages until secondary school and the overall level of attainment reached being too low to be any real use. Current educational policy pays lip service to the idea of learning modern foreign languages but until there is investment in doing it properly I think we may as well not bother.

But all that assumes we do any subject for its utilitarian useful. No GCSE is advanced enough to provide world ready skills. This isn't even really what they are for.

usefulness

I speak Spanish (almost) fluently, as well as some French, and I can’t tell you how ‘empowering’ (sorry I hate that word but can’t think of another right now) it is to be able to hold your own in a foreign country, feeling connected to the people who live there. Italian next (vanity project 😁).

^^also I know that I’ll be able to pick up Italian really easily as I have such a firm grasp of two Latin-based languages already. I already understand quite a bit of it.

OP, my DS did History IGCSE and there is a lot of content (far more than when I was at school)! Also, there is a quite specific way of writing the essays. But they do learn a lot and I do think it gives them a solid knowledge base.
He did - English Lang, English Lit, Maths, History, Geography, French, Spanish, Music, Physics, Biology. So the one he dropped was Chemistry, but he knew he wouldn’t be doing science at A-level. He got all 9s. He would say that History had the most content of all the GCSEs and was the “heaviest” in terms of essays, even though it was one of his favourite subjects. Geography obviously has essays too, but it’s more interpreting data etc and more straightforward in this sense. Spanish was less arduous than either of them. Now he’s doing a Spanish A-level and really enjoying learning about South American history, politics, music and culture as he goes.

OP just to say your approach re languages sounds a bit short term and limited.

Basically she may hate it now but regret it later and you as a parent are there to keep options open and have the longer term view that your young DD may not have the wisdom to show.

Plus
With languages, there is definitely an advantage of leaning it when your brain is still young. If you build those brain paths now, it will be easy later.
Not to mention the intellectual stretching of a young mind that a language brings, beyond the actual knowledge and use of it. It smartens you up generally too.
I will not repeat what many PP have said too about the usefulness in real life etc, I think pretty obvious.
So I would encourage your daughter to take Spanish up, especially if you say she is good at it.
My two cents anyway!

Personally I would also drop the Business Studies and do the Spanish. To my mind, education at this level is more about development of skills and ways of learning and thinking, rather than knowledge acquisition. I can't see that doing Business Studies at this stage is really going to enhance your daughter's education in a way that a combination of maths and humanities isn't; and if she does decide later that business is for her, then she can look at an economics A level or degree without (I imagine) any need to have done a business studies GCSE. But studying Spanish is a whole different way of learning/thinking which would complement her other subjects and broaden her education. Just my view! Obv might be different if she wasn't academically strong or genuinely hated languages.

I would definitely pick Spanish over Business Studies.

I never had much interest in spanish at school and never thought I would ever need it, I quite frequently didn't even bother showing up to the lessons because I thought it was so useless. As an adult I ended up travelling South America and I now live in Spain and work in a spanish speaking office. Oh how I regret not paying more attention at school. You never know what the future holds.

All these posts have convinced me that DD should choose Spanish and it’s certainly what I will be recommending her taking. DD’s still not convinced though. She is saying that she really dislikes it. I think she is thinking of the Business Studies as her “easy ride” subject. I can’t force her to take something that she really doesn’t enjoy. She’s generally speaking a sensible girl so I’m just hoping that common sense will prevail! 🤞

If your DD does not enjoy Spanish then perhaps it is not for her and maybe better to do something that she actually wants to do. Do not underestimate the new GCSES, they are tough with a lot of content particularly in History. There is time later in life for learning languages with options to study it online or perhaps even going to live in the country. Learning introduce yourself, talk about your hobbies and where you go on holidays isn't necessarily the be all and end all of language education.