St Paul's or Westminster

[laidbackmumoftwo]

My DS got offers from Westminster and St Paul’s 6th form. It is hard to figure out which school might suit him better. What are the culture of each school and which type of boys will thrive more?

DS is independent, enjoying music and sports. We live overseas now and do not plan to move back London soon so DS will be far away from home. Any recommendations, especially the pastoral care and social life of these two schools for boarders? Also, do the schools have specific strengths on certain subjects? Thank you!

Westminster has more boarders, maybe more weekly boarders than full boarders. @Rockylady more details why SPS's pastrol care is a bit better?

I heard that many westminsters went to Oxford for history and art this year, not sure about previous years. DS is more of science and math kid. @ ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas which year is your boy? do you know usually how are the level of boys joining 6th form?

@ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas Your boy is the type I like! I will figure out how to do PM :)

Don’t choose a school based at all on Oxbridge rate. For a start, Cambridge has already, and Oxford is in the process of, increasing their percentages of offers to state school pupils. It will get harder to get in from the “right schools” as they will be competing directly against their peers rather than against those without the benefits of an elite education.

Press the 3 dots on the bottom right of a post and press the little envelope icon with PM next to it.

This came from a Westminster parent, what I mean by arrogant is that being bright and assertive is allowed to supersede other values. So they come back home and they struggle to show also other values that were more often instilled at home, and the school knows this and don't care. I am surprised that people are surprised about this comment, because I have heard it often (and you can be polite and say hello to your friend's mum and still be arrogant then or elsewhere! of course they are smart boys). The SP boy type is historically (on average) a little more down to earth and more quietly confident. Both schools still look for the same level of academic excellence. But you will have to judge all of this by yourself OP.
SP will be a smaller boarding environment and naturally less aggressive and easier to manage, pastoral care gets easier and communication slighter better in comparison. That is what I hear anyways.
As for results, I guess this should not be a factor for comparison here, very difficult to differentiate and you should focus more on the subjects your DS wants to take. And yes the girls coming in at sixth form will bring the average up for W (and a contributor to why stats are marginally better than SP). Girls at sixth form also come in to study certain subjects that boys are less inclined to do, like modern languages (German anyone?).
What is your DS going to do at weekends? Neither school is particularly full and active during the whole weekend, so if you have relatives or a place where he could go, all the better.

and as for STEM subject there is no obvious better place between the two, toss of a coin. So he will have to choose by other more subjective factors and the feel of the place more than anything

In 6th form wouldn't he rather be in the very centre of London and also be around smart girls?

OP you are very welcome to PM me too if you’d like. My DS is in 6th Form at Westminster.

Westminster operates as a boarding school. StPs does not. DC, who were day pupils, used to go in for breakfast. DS used to stay for supper and to do homework and then join friends for a late evening gym session before returning home, so he was practically a boarder. DD would have brunch on a Sunday with boarding friends, they would then do homework together and head off for noodles somewhere.

Central London was a great place to be. DS was one of a gang who regularly attended public lectures at the LSE. DD went to similar at science institutes.

Lots of sport at Westminster. Very inclusive rather than ultra competitive. Lots of choice so plenty even for the least sporty.

The DS should decide where he feels happiest, but from the outside boarding at Westminster offers a whole lot more than the same at StPs. (One of DS’s boarder friends switched from Dulwich to Westminster and was far happier. It is much easier when boarding is the norm, and school life is planned around boarding.)

Oh and I have no idea what rockylady is talking about. We found the pastoral care at Westminster was excellent, and can see no evidence of arrogance amongst DCs friends.

DDs university friends are mainly northern, often state educated and very sporty. DSs university friends are/were very international and academically high achieving. His two closed British friends were both state educated. Westminster’s seem to have a knack of flying under the radar in a way that, say, Etonians do not.

@needmoresleep, it is great that you had a good experience on the pastoral side. I can tell you factually there are some people out there that did not.
I do agree that Westminster is much preferred over boarding at Eton overall. It is really just a different philosophy and experience. I would have no doubt about it. But horses for courses ....

I will concede that DS did complain about the arrogance of some of his peers. However he and his friends were definitely in the quiet nerdy group who thought learning was fun, and who arrived at University equipped to study and do well.

My own view that the difference is not about schools but about background. Plenty of über confident parents send their children to both. DH told DS that he was not allowed to become a ‘public school plonker’ and to be honest DS was simply enthralled by the education he received, and made friends who felt the same. DDs friends were girls, and boys, who studied science, who again tended to be quieter and more straightforward.

I will admit to being biased as Westminster proved to be the perfect educational experience for two very different children.

Westminster for the reasons people have given above. Both however are very good schools and he will do fine at either of them.

(Writing a parent of children in London day schools - simply because we and the children were not keen on boarding; but we know plenty of children at the 2 mentioned)

The main factors to consider are boarding community and girls. Sports facility is a less important factor for 6th forms. If it was for 13+, then that's different. Parents in 6th forms told me the final two years are just so packed and intensive. A level studies, univerisity visits, entrance exams, interviews, and preparation for US universities for some, will fill up their schedule. it is unlikely they will do the same amount of sports as lower years.

Organic coffee, Westminster still had two afternoons a week dedicated to sport when DD was in sixth form. Plus matches. Plus taking part in a variety of house sports. Plus school trips like the 24 hour Lyke Wake walk over the North York Moors or an ice skating marathon in Finnland. Obviously the less sporty would duck some of this, and musicians would have their own busy schedules. But the two afternoons were pretty much set in stone, albeit with plenty of options for those less keen on team sports.

Long days and Saturday school, but a work hard play hard ethos, and a real encouragement to balance academic work with sport or other interests.

One curiosity was how much kudos sports achievements were given. Westminster is not in any way shape or form an elite sports school. But DD found that lots of credit was given when a team, whether boys or girls, did well.

With experience of both, boarding is a better experience at Westminster. For your son to enter at sixth form level, & for STEM, he must be exceptional as so few boys are admitted compared to girls. There are still plenty of boys in the sixth form coming up through the school!
If he is relaxed about learning with girls and must board, I would pick Westminster.
I haven't said much about St Paul's, but the education there is also excellent. The schools are just different. I feel that Westminster with its slightly different approach + Abbey edges it for all students - there is space for everyone.

I mean, of course, space for all characters, not physical space.

Do many people turn down Westminster? Isn't it the best school in the UK?

@XelaM No, that's Eton.

Laidback, congratulations to your DS. Both are excellent school. My sixth former DS has several friends at Westminster, and they all love it.

Generally, I like 'full boarding' schools (i.e. schools where the expectation is that the pupils don't go home at all, other than for holidays and exeats), especially if you're a long way away, as I am. I think it's easier for a boarder to be at a school where all their friends don't pop home for Sunday lunch.

I wouldn't worry about Oxbridge, either. These schools are all, still, spectacularly good at getting pupils into Oxbridge.

@EtonianMotherHaha I had Eton in mind too honestly In terms if admission, I've heard Westminster is even tougher to get into and requires an even higher academic ability (all marginal of course given that all these schools require exceptional ability)?

@XelaM. I do know there can be some movement between these schools at sixth form level. DS has a couple of friends who switched to Westminster for Lower 6 because they wanted to be able to go home more often.

SPS any day especially for maths and sciences. Though smaller, the boarding house is really cosy and with outstanding pastoral care. Great support for US universities with outstanding Oxbridge admissions.

DS has an offer to Westminster for 13+. Interested to know from parents with DC there whether the drugs culture sometimes associated with the older years there is just an urban myth, or whether it really more of a problem at Westminster than other London day school (and if so, why? Central London location without a campus?)?