3 year GCSE courses

[mintyneb]

We've just been told today that DD (yr8) will have to chose her GCSEs next summer to start them in yr9.

Up until now the school has done GCSEs over 2 years so traditionally DD would have had over a year before having to make a choice. This has therefore come as something of a surprise.

Apparently research shows that 3 year courses are better all round but as there won't be an info evening until Feb it will be a while before I can officially find out more from school.

Any thoughts from folks whose DC have gone through this and come out the other side?!

Teacher here and I hate it.

Not all year 9s have the maturity to deal with GCSE work so you have to repeat it and listen to, "we already did this" or go so slowly the brighter ones are bored.

I was quite naughty in one place, I was teaching year 9 childcare, not my subject (long term supply) and had an almost arts and crafts class. It was all relevant to childcare, in small groups they made puppets/models and then made short films of things like going to hospital or mum bringing home a new baby.

I was going to teach them to knit.

I'm a graduate of O Levels and CSEs and we did start science O Level work it what was they third year.

When I run the world year 9 will continue with core subjects, English, Maths, Science in the usual way but will have a mixture of tasters and short courses, things like first aid, how to use a bank account and also trials of GCSE subjects that are new to them eg computer science, childcare etc so students can actually get an idea of the subject before commiting and the teachers can get a feel for who will do well.

I'll vote for you sashh

Theworldisfullofgs in March of this year so a recent inspection.

@mintyneb They say they get some mfl in Y9? Then none in Y10/Y11 unless they choose mfl for gcse, that's normal I think.

sashh - ds' school does do short courses in first aid, amongst others, in years 9 and 10. No GCSE or BTEC taster courses, though - students have to make their option choices at the end of year 8. This wasn't an issue for my ds' as they already knew exactly what they were interested in (and the school offers plenty or extra curricular music and drama opportunities for those interested in these subjects, but not wanting to do GCSEs in them), but I can see this could be more problematic for others. In all honesty, neither of them was any more mature or ready to make choices at the end of year 9 than year 8, and I remember year 9 being the most depressing, nothing-year of my school career, so don't have any fond memories of the joys of still having to do subjects I disliked to look back on. I think my own children are getting a much more varied and interesting education than the one I got in my 1980s grammar school (and have been able to study more subjects for longer, and have more subjects to choose from, than I ever did).

@GreySheep

Crucially not under the new framework though.

Minty it's normal to not do a language after choosing options if you didn't choose a language.

It's not really bad teaching, though walkaround so much as leadership.

Leadership as in leadership telling you that you must teach that way (ie badly)? One thing that is notable about my ds' school is the level of support leadership have from staff. I am a governor in one school, work in another and know quite a few teachers, so get to hear quite a lot of opinions about schools in the locality, and staff at ds' school are genuinely supportive of the leadership team there, and feel supported and listened to by their leadership team. I do think that makes a colossal difference. The school also got 99% of parents responding in the Ofsted Parentview questionnaire that they would recommend it to other parents.

@Teachermaths I wouldn’t know. Just know DD’s school is getting amazing results and praise from all sides so whatever they’re doing is working for the children in our area. Results wise and progress 8 wise they beat all other local schools.

Of course if ofsted decide to mark down schools that are achieving great things just because they choose 3 year GCSE’s (even though it can be shown that in that particular school a 3 year course works well), that would further enforce my opinion that ofsted are more keen on their own agenda than what benefits children. Just a thought of course.

I am not specifically talking about my school . More about my observations of what English has become like across many schools. This seems to be much more of a pedagogical battleground than maths or science. It's an interpretation if what the teaching if English looks like from years 7 to 11 which is very different from what it was 15 years ago.

Neither of my children’s schools do a 3 year KS4 although science content is begun in year 9. I’m glad of that. Dd in particular had to drop history and geography in order to accommodate her other subject choices and I’m glad she had the extra year of humanities study.

However one of the things ds’s previous school did which I am in favour of was partial options. At the end of year 8 students can choose to drop certain art/technology subjects (they still have to do at least 2, or to begin a second language. Then proper options are chosen at the end of year 9.

At my DS’s school they chose options in Yr8 and have started on track towards GCSE work in Yr9 dropping subjects they are not studying to GCSE level or equivalent. It’s been quite a soft start and I’d say that the homework hasn’t been as intense as Yr8 so far.

As they take 10 subjects the only academic subject he’s dropped is Geography. He’s doing English x 2, Science x2, 2 languages, History, RE (compulsory at the school), Maths and Music. I do think it might have been nice to continue with Drama, Art and Product Design etc. for another year and it was a shame to drop Geography. However, it’s a broader range of subjects than I was able to opt to do in the 80s when 8 was the max so it doesn’t feel like he is missing out.

For those doing 3 year courses, do they keep the same teacher for all 3 years?
Our school does 2 year and aims to keep the same teachers wherever possible.

TeenPlusTwenties - yes, they do keep the same teacher.

That is, of course, unless they change set in a subject.

They often keep the same teacher but sometimes teachers leave so it's not guaranteed. Our school seems to have problems finding and retaining teachers in certain subjects.

As long as we are still working there we stay with the group @TeenPlusTwenties for the 3 years.

I know some subjects at my school do start on the GCSE spec from day 1 of yr9 but in my subject we don't but cover basics that are subject specific without specs in mind which allows for deeper thinking/understanding when starting qualification specific content - this I will miss if/when we return to a 2 year

Both my kids schools do 2 year GCSEs and both change teachers for some subjects between years 10 & 11

2 year gcse course here (highly successful comprehensive) except for languages. One is dropped at the end of year 8 so some gcse language content is taught in year 9.

I’m glad dd chose her options at the end of year 9, by that point she knew better what she wanted to do and also her friendship group completely changed during yr 9 and she’s ended up in a nicer crowd all doing the same GCSEs.

Interestingly, while the comprejhensive DD and DS went to has always done 2 year GCSE courses (and has a real 'thing' about breadth of curriculum, so much so that it still offers 5 'true' option blocks for GCSEs,. all with a range of subjects in - so not History vs Geography, but languages in 2 or 3 blocks, music in a couple, art in almost all, humanities in several each, so that whatever a child wants to do can usually be accommodated), suyperselective grammar has until recently done 3 year courses. It has now switched to 2 year courses, presumably worried about what Ofsted might say about a school in which, despite very high attaining pupils, the curriculum offering was dramatically restricted from the end of Y8 (take up of creative and DT subjects is very low).

It can be hard to distinguish between 'Y9 work' and 'GCSE work' in many subjects, though.

Language vocabulary, for example, or science content, or music composition / performance, or art skills - it's not always clear exactly where 'GCSE courses' start.

I don't have a huge issue with schools starting such GCSE material in Y9, as long as no subjects are dropped - it's the restriction of the curriculum to English, Maths, Science, a single humanity, a single MFL (if that) and precious little else that I find dispiriting and wrong.

cantkeepawayforever - I find it dispiriting and wrong that so many schools doing 2-year GCSEs restrict choices to a single MFL (if that), a single humanity and Science, English and maths, but it seems to me that will happen more, not less, often, if there is a blanket ban on 3-year GCSEs.

My DC school seems to use 3 yr GCSEs as a way of keeping the curriculum as open as possible until Y11 - they do 8 or 9 compulsory GCSEs depending on double or triple science, and then any four options from a list of GCSEs and bye s. Plus Welsh Bacc. Top 2 sets maths do additional maths if they want.

Don't think that variety would be possible without adopting the 3yr gcse plan so I prefer it for that reason. I think my DC would have really struggled with choosing / dropping subjects if they were only doing 9 in total.

Both ds's and dd's schools only offer 1 language throughout the school to everyone anyway as they havn't got the teachers/numbers to run more.

Ds had a completely free choice of subjects in his 2 year GCSE's. As long as he chose at least 2 science plus one out of either history, geography, language or computer science his other choices were completely free. he could choose an extra science, or another humanity or 1/2 arts/technology subjects.