A Level French or Sociology?

[LimeOrange]

Dd needs to submit her choices for Sixth Form soon. She wants to do Maths and Biology as definites. She gets good grades for them. (8s)

She did want to do Sociology as her third option which she has studied at GCSE. She got 7 for that in the last exams.

She now thinks she wants to do French and can't decide between that and Sociology. She gets 8s in French.

She doesn't know what she wants to do later.

Something else to mention is that her exam grades can sometimes be affected by her not writing fast enough and not finishing. This tends to affect essay subjects, but not so much Maths, Science, French so far. It was mentioned by her Sociology teacher at the last parents' eve. He said it could be addressed by doing lots of practice of timed essays to speed up.

I'm thinking French may be the better option in light of the above, and because it may be more useful, although she wishes she could do both. I guess how useful either might be would depend on what she ends up wanting to do.

I suggested that if she decides to do an EPQ as her enrichment option, perhaps she could choose to do it about an aspect of Sociology, so she doesn't have to drop it completely.

Any thoughts? Thanks

It really has. In my school, they do three from the get go. And we now have quite a lot of students stuck with subjects they don't like/aren't doing well in/regret choosing.

I hope they address the native speaker thing ADP. I have noticed at a lot of unis they exclude native speakers form their undergrad language course, or put them in a different 'stream' and , yet, in schools, the native speakers sit an A Level or GCSE as if it is a foreign language. It really needs sorting.

APD1981 - thank you for posting, that is good to hear. But it is still heartbreaking to think of all the pupils at DD's school who started languages this year but are not continuing because this hasn't been addressed yet. What a wasted opportunity. Is there anything concrete I could show her which may help persuade her to keep trying?

@Piggywaspushed

We as MFL teachers had a real victory with today's announcement. Languages are being run into the ground in this country, often because the native speaker contingent puts everyone else off, just like in the OPs case. Same at GCSE, too. I'm primarily a German teacher but I do some French, too. Today's publication said that German and French at GCSE will now be marked in line with Spanish. Spanish is a technically 'easier' subject (still hard though!) and so always appears to perform better. Hopefully when the marking of GCSEs changes next year the demise of German and, surprisingly, French in schools will slow down. I don't think the government realise how important MFL will be when/if we ever Brexit!

to me, languages have always been pure learning subjects,too. It's about the joy of learning something new , not just utilitarian 'usefulness'. It makes me very sad to see them run into the ground (quite willingly!) by quite a lot of headteachers, especially at A Level.

Btw ADP, I started a thread on staffroom!

@PandaandCat I saw your daughter had an interest in forensic science. I mentored a student who wanted to study this at degree level recently and we investigated various courses and professional requirements. You might want to be aware that to become a forensic scientist the employers much prefer a mainstream science degree from a decent uni, like biology, chemistry, biochemistry. Then you do further training. I was told repeatedly by people in forensic science that a forensic science degree was not worth the price.

Thanks Pollaidh That's useful to know. She's only in year 9 so we have a few years yet, her grammar did this in year 7 though it is something I can see her doing. Her brother is ASD and school sometimes ask her for help understanding him when he's gone non-verbal and she always knows. Someone I was at university with went into it and sounded interesting, she did a Natural Science degree.

I hadn't seen the announcement about MFL, thanks for that. Former MFL teacher here, I still tutor MFL. I would sadly advise anyone desperate to get toppp grades (eg Oxford level) to avoid A level MFL 😢 due to the native speaker issue. DD did French and got a C, she did more work for that than her other two together. Her v bright friend got a B.

Op let her do what she wants, unis have dropped the facilitating subject thing anyway, plus she already has two there.

I have seen before the notion that a biology degree is impossible without chemistry but that's just not true. Just talking to a yr 13 student I know with CCC offer for biology at Birmingham and she does maths and geography. Ds is looking at unis for biology and he does maths but not chemistry.

Just checked York as it is mentioned on this thread and they require biology and a second science to study biology. The list of second sciences includes maths.

Just checked York as it is mentioned on this thread and they require biology and a second science to study biology

Good to know! Dd had to remove York from her list when she dropped Chem. I was gutted

Where is the evidence that the universities put native speakers in a different stream? My DD has them in her classes/seminars. They all mix in unless they are ab initio. For the final year they take the same exams!

Native speakers or DC with parents who have taught DC the language have a distinct advantage at all levels. However if a DC loves languages they should do them! Oxbridge, when I last looked, needs A grade. Not A*. However the entry tests are still easier for native speakers who can easily hide this fact!

Linguists tend to be more sought after than sociologists if salaries after graduation are considered. Also teachers who teach subjects are rarely best placed to advise. They are biased towards their subjects! However you judge degrees, it appears clear that a person with one or more languages is in more demand (£35,000 golden hello for teaching) than someone with a sociology degree.

I did both, started off loving French, found it easier. Didn’t last long!
It was really tricky and in all honesty, not as fun!

Sociology was meaty, relevant and I really really enjoyed it. As a result I got A. I don’t abide subject snobbery- an A is an A*.
In all honesty though, only she can decide.

I agree that teachers are biased towards their subjects Bubbles. I meant she could get advice from sixth form senior staff who give general advice but don't teach her subject.

bubbles as you know my DC are linguists, so this is based on extensive research of many universities.

It's not £35k! More like 26.... runs off to check.... £35k would be more earnings than a HOD, possibly.

In my experience sixth form senior staff are also biased. They will themselves teach a subject and often have limited knowledge about the content of others. Sad but true.

A careers adviser might help but they will probably give very generic advice which most of us could find vis Google. I actually think Mumsnet is quite a good place to sift through various experiences and advice on this type of thing.

I think this thread does show the harsh reality of taking a MFL at A level and the work it will take to get a decent grade. A very bright and hardworking French native speaker is DS1's class passed the language test for Oxford, where he now studies, but only got a grade A at A level. If he can't get an A* there is a serious problem with the system. He now has the same grade as DS, and we effectively bought DS's grade by getting him 2 hours a week tuition on top of his very expensive school fees and he spent three whole summers at language schools in France.
Living in London I find it interesting that so many of the expat DCs here opt to study a third language beyond 16. As English speakers we seem to think that learning languages is for everyone else and the system isn't helping.

This was all in the news yesterday by the way : all very interesting re GCSE and A Level grading for French and German.

Also, I would add that to say that an actual teacher of a subject isn't well placed to advise what the content , skills and demands of their subject are (which is what has been done by quite a few on here) is , frankly, a wee bit daft.

Had two very bright girls doing four A levels who would have got A in French, but both dropped the French. One got into Balliol and did French once she got there, now working for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. The other's mother is French and a French teacher, she got 3 A in her subjects and went to Exeter though honestly she could have gone anywhere. She rapidly became subject rep for her subject and beat students in higher years to a work placement at the Bank of England, where ahe spent her industrial placement year. So my advice is, if she really likes French then she can pick it up later on. I have a Sociology A level but taught French for 34 years, so it kills me to be so realistic, but when you have to you have to! (Sociology A level taken in 6 months at night school while doing a "responsible" full time job), so yes, she could also pick up Sociology at any time she wants as well. Not a difficult subject at all.

Piggy: I didn’t mean teachers didn’t know their subjects. What I meant was an individual teacher doesn’t know the combination of subjects a DC should be doing for their university or career aspiration. They might be great on advice for their subject but would a Law teacher really say Law A level wasn’t the best prep for a Law degree?

See attached for £35,000: £26,000 bursary plus £9000. (Do keep up!)

Bubbles, a teacher, i.e. a subject teacher, may fall into the pattern you describe, but in the sixth form the DC's tutor/mentor/ form teacher should, and must, be able to give this sort of advice, helping their charges get into the uni of their choice is their job after all, and if they are not able to you can always get the advice from the Head of Sixth.

HOWEVER, the correct combination of subjects should be chosen in yr 11, and this is down to the year 11 team, if they can, or the yr 12 team if the yr 11 can't. AND it relies on the DC actually having a good idea of what they want to do at uni, or elsewhere, which OP's DC seems to already have.

BUT all this info is easily found on the UCAS website, you simply ask what A levels are necessary for whichever course you are interested in. Or you could use university.which.co.uk/courses

or sacu-student.com/?page_id=5203
or use this www.google.com/search?q=what+university+courses+can+i+do+with+my+a+levels&oq=What+university+courses+can+I+do+with+my+A+levels&aqs=chrome.0.0l6.11552j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
to do your own search. This is not rocket science.

It would appear OP's DC has chosen two and narrowed the other down to 2 so there are only two combinations possible, so this search, "What can I do with these three A levels?", done twice, will not take long. Sorry if I appear to be patronising, just trying to make it clear to anyone else reading this thread who doesn't want to post.

A friend of mine is native German. The family moved here a few years ago and his three daughters all stikl attend a German school on weekends. His super-bright eldest daughter who did her GCSE German in Year 8 and got an A, only could get an A at A-level German. He told me jow hard it was to get top grades in German at A-level. If a super-smart native German can't manage an A then who can?

I know Bubbles that you didn't mean that. It was another poster who said that teachers of subjects wouldn't give good advice. I tend to agree with your point about law teachers.

I read yesterday of a girl gaining access to Cambridge with media studies and sociology A Level (plus Eng Lit) so time they are a changing.

Who knows, come the next election, we may be in a situation where all beginner teachers are paid more than many people who have been doing the job for 5 or more years! Teachers' pay is probably not a thing to bank on!

But, if you read your link the up to 9k is staggered across 3 years so that's not £35 k!