Can they force y11 DS to go part-time?

[BringOnTheScience]

I'll try to not go on & on, but also don't want to dripfeed.

DS has always struggled with school. There was bullying & lots of challenging behaviour from multiple pupils in his class throughout primary school. Partial deafness was diagnosed in y6. Together, we thought this was why he was struggling.

He's now y11.

He finds maths impossible (working at about y3 or y4 level). English is v difficult - spelling is appalling (we tried pushing for dyslexia assessment, but school said it his partial deafness to blame). He won't write, anything, at all.

Currently predicted fails in every subject, aparr from a possible 1 or 2 in English Lit if he has a scribe & gets the right Q about Macbeth. He might get a Level 2 BTEC, if I pretty much do his coursework for him.

He hates school. Loathes it. Goes only because he knows he has to.

Behaviour is poor. He is still targetted by the bullies, who chose all the same subjects and he can't escape.

Frequent detentions for swearing, storming out of class, etc. Been sent home several times, including today, because he's got distressed & angry. Just one formal single day exclusion last year because he threw a chair.

We have an appointment coming with our GP because we now realise that DS shows many signs of ASD.

Head of House wants a meeting to discuss DS's future at the school. It's clear from the phone call that they want to propose that he is not entered for most of his exams. They will let him sit in an office to do extra maths & English.

Can they do this? Would it count as full-time education?

While I'm fully in favour of not setting DS up to fail, just giving him extra maths, his most hated subject, isn't going to help. School are not offering any extra support.

I definitely get the feeling that they're wanting to avoid the fails on their stats, rather than doing it became it's right for him.

What are the key bits of legislation that I could quote at them to ensure that DS is getting the education & support that's right for him?

TL:DR
DS hates school & will fail. School are not helping, but want to cut him to part-time timetable. Can they?

Thank you

Private or state?

It doesn't sound like he's benefitting from his education at the moment, and although it sounds as if the behaviour problems may be provoked by others, the fact that they're happening means that other students' education may be suffering (and not just the bullies').

Perhaps more should have been put in place earlier, but it's not clear what is actually going to be useful with only two terms left.

I taught a lad who went onto a part-time timetable for the last couple of terms - he wasn't going to get anything much at GCSE, and they found him a work experience placement for about half the week. They worked it so that he would still be in school for some of his maths and English lessons, and another subject that he particularly enjoyed. Work experience gave him an opportunity to mature a little in a different environment.

If your son is not going to get the GCSEs and he doesn't like being in the lessons either, then looking at something like an extended work experience placement might make more sense. He's entitled to full-time education, but it seems clear that sitting in his GCSE lessons is not necessarily the best thing for him.

Have you started looking at options for next year?

State - local comp academy.

Hadn't thought of extended work exp as an option. Will put thinking caps on for what could potentially work. That's a great idea. Thank you @Ianthanum

We have been back & forth & to & fro asking for help from school. Nothing done. Now suddenly, this.

You could speak with some specialist education lawyers - www.legal500.com/c/london/public-sector/education-individuals

I'd withdraw him from school if you have the time. He clearly isn't benefitting from it and it's too late to apply for EHCP and get support that way. If he's on track to fail that's not going to change in the next 2 terms.

Yes the school will benefit from him being off roll but your ds will benefit more from not being in that environment. Sort out his next steps in terms of college, just make sure its at the right level. Entry level will probably be appropriate from the information you have given.

I would look into alternatives, to be honest.

Thank you for replies.

We can't home ed. We both work full time - I'm in an education role, ironically!

I just want them to actually DO something, instead of just abandon him. It feels like they're just giving up.

He wants to do art with textiles at the local college. Lovely tutors there seemed to "get" him immediately. They said he could at L1 if needed & switch to L2. They do Functional Skills for maths. Why the hell they can't offer that at secondary is beyond me.

Why the hell they can't offer that at secondary is beyond me.

Funding, they get none for it.
Staffing, he'd be in a vvv small class which schools don't have the staff for.

I understand it's frustrating for you as parents. I question a school that has let your DS get this far with no intervention, or attempt at diagnosis however.

I wouldn't withdraw him from school. I would go in and talk to school see what they propose. A couple of my sons year were put on partial timetables and assigned to a member of the senior team who acted as a mentor - it helped - they got to the end of the year - took some exams - survived a bit better. I would turn my mind to next year. A local Further Education college would offer Maths/English with a vocational qualification. Talk to your son and plan for the future.

When I was teaching in the UK state secondary sector (15 years ago so out of date I know) we had quite a lot (as in 5+ every year) of children in broadly similar positions to your son - they used to go into part time college timetables which meant they attended school 2-3 days and the local technical college the other 2 or 3 to study a vocational and basic skills timetable.

It's worth asking whether this could be an option, although as it hasn't been offered perhaps funding routes have changed. It's possible that your secondary just doesn't have the experience and by doing the liaison yourself you could get it set up.

Whether or not he's turned 16 might be relevant to finding and whether the college can accommodate him.

Are there any local colleges with a 14-16 programme, some are in tandem with local schools? It may buy him time to take fewer gcse this year and resit or add to level 2 next year. Are they actually excluding him or would he stay onsite for full day?

@Anothernotherone unfortunately that kind of thing is no longer an option in most schools due to funding and college offerings.

Withdrawing doesn't look like an option for you OP which is a shame. The school have clearly buried their head in the sand becuase there's no way a pupil with maths level y4 should not have been assessed by professionals.

From a logistical POV there is now very little the school can do. Not entering him for exams is kinder than him failing them all. But he has to be supervised while in school.

Have you been raising your ds achievement as an issue since year 7? I genuinely wonder how he's got this far with seemingly supportive parents who are engaged.

I see he is interested in textiles - I was going to suggest a UTC if you have one nearby. They have recently been slated for poor results though and don't do textiles (or at least our nearest one doesn't).

I hope you can sort something out for him, but I can also see why the school want him out of the classroom if he is walking out anyway. It certainly doesn't sound fun for him at all, unfortunately.

Don't withdraw him, it is much easier to get support when on the school's roll.

Apply for an EHCP, it is not too late, they can last until 25 years old. IPSEA and SOS SEN are good resources and have advice lines.

If by part time you mean only in school for some of the time then that would be an illegal exclusion. If you mean just withdrawing for some subjects as you say, then focusing on fewer may be helpful as long as he is going to be taught and not left to his own devices as that wouldn't be appropriate.

Not entering him for exams will lower their progress scores anyway, and like teacher says making him sit them if he is going to fail would be worse than not being entered, it could do serious harm to his already poor MH.

School may consider some sort of contract. X hours in school for maths and English. X hours elsewhere doing a textile related subject. X hours PE/ engagement/ enrichment. If his behaviour does not exclude he is likely to be PEX. By introducing a carrot it may be better to concentrate on the basics. School do not need to enter him for any exams. I would be asking what is available elsewhere to motivate him. Ensure you have all your records of reports about bullying and a list of questions about off site options. He can attend different venues \ courses and school still retain overall responsibility for him.

Thank you SO much everyone for your replies. You've given me lots to think about, and lots of positive suggestions.

Yes, we have been flagging all of his issues and repeatedly asked for support. They offered extra maths, but it was after school & he felt like it was detention. It was also pitched far too high for him.
Teachers in every subject have said that they'll give work that's suitable for him, but that lasts only a couple of weeks.
They're all supposed to give him printed resources because of the hearing issues, but they just don't bother.

We are so fed up of having the same conversation over & over again. We just feel like they've given up on him and are shoving him out for their benefit not his.

You've given me lots of ideas to present back to them, like the work exp and college time.

Thank you

He obviously has SEN. You have been failed by the school if his attainment is so low. I would talk to them about other curriculum options, possibly with the local FE college, and whether there is SEN outreach from a SEN school that could advise. This situation is intolerable!

Ok. This may not help now as he's year 11. But education is a marathon and not a sprint so he can do his GCSEs in college and then go on and do more. With an ehcp he can be in education until he's 25.

Everything needs to be in writing. Read Sendcop. Especially section 6. Quote it. Also quote the behaviour policy and ask why they aren't investigating send which will encompass a huge part of them looking at why he has constant punishments and it isn't working.

My own ds has asd. He started year 7 in an academy. Sadly IME they are not good for children with send or any need. It costs them money. Images and results alongside their business model are the main priorities.

Make sure you email to confirm that they are suggesting PT timetable and non core curriculum subjects in all areas. Ask them what their plans are to increase him to FT education after 6 weeks (as per guidance). State you are not happy with the arrangement and that section 19 of the education act states they must provide an education suitable for the aptitude of the pupil. Ask again how they will meet this? State you will be applying for an ehcp - because it's clear he has send and needs more than a MS has resources for (the criteria)
Use the isles guidelines to apply.
Ignore the politics and insist timescales are adhered to. Ignore anything la or school say and stick to law under sendcop. Just wrote relevant articles. Appeal (when!) if they decline to assess.

They have already indicated they can't and don't know how to meet need. If his spelling etc is poor due to his hearing what have they done? What provision does he need (quieter environment/ TA in class to repeat so he can hear/ online spelling support programmes/ scribe/ reader etc) why haven't they had teacher for HI involved? When are they getting them involved to offer advice and support.

It is probably too late for this year. But I'd use this year to get the ehcp set up so he can have the right support and access GCSEs next year. He could do English and some maths and start at level 1/2 course and work his way up to level 3/4. Sendcop will focus on what he needs to achieve for his future aspirations. Not having gcse won't necessarily be a stumbling block if he wants to do an apprenticeship in something that requires level 2 in the subject. (Because the level 2 is above GCSEs and the highest qualification is what they look for)

Good luck. I've been there with a school who would rather ignore than deal with an issue. Luckily for me ds switched in year 8 and got an ehcp (I had to fight hard!) and his whole future changed. The boy who couldn't cope with school, would flee lessons and throw tables and chairs is now a model student who rarely leaves a lesson.
My ds also has asd.

Oh and the extra stuff after school. Ds academy offered all sen support after school (actually wonder if it's the same one!) and when we had tribunal for refusal to assess for ehcp the judge even said a) why does having send mean he has to stay like a detention and b) what makes you think a child who already cannot cope with the pressures of a normal day would benefit from extending it?!
I mentioned I'd considered adding a disability discrimination claim about this issue but had decided moving forward was better than fighting what's already done. He said he would have taken it seriously and hinted that it was DD. (Treating a send child less favourably than their peers as attending send support after school means no socialising, joining clubs etc alongside them)

It sounds like things have gone very badly wrong to be at this point.

Logically I can see the merit in him having a reduced curriculum and having additional time to get maths and English. If his skills are really lower KS2 then he has a mountain to climb just to stand a chance of getting a grade to be honest.

I'd question the nature of the part time timetable. I've seen it work well and seen it be misused. In good situations I've known students spend 2-3 days a week in school and then 2/3 days a week with alternative providers such as local FE colleges, vocational training providers, charity programmes to help them prepare for moving into post16. In bad situations students end up killing time at home for part of the week, usually given study materials to work through for core subjects but it's very much out of sight and out of mind.

In terms of why the school can't offer what's offered at FE, it's because there's no funding in schools, and certainly not enough funding to be running level 1 courses for single candidates. There's never been the money for that. If someone needs lower than level 2 provision at ks4 then they're usually not in mainstream provision.

I'm not sure withdrawing him now would make any difference either way to the school to be honest. I can't remember when the census is taken for those students who get counted in GCSE statistics but I think it's too late for them to have off rolled him for statistical reasons.

There's some food for thought though.

Thank you all once again for your valuable input. You deserve an update - We do now have a way forward with school.

Dropping everything, except English, maths and double science.

He'll finish school early 2 days each week and be picked up by a relative nearby to come home.

Some of the 'frees' will be spent in the school's separate unit for learning support. He'll get extra help with maths & English. He'll have a scribe for English exams too.

Some 'frees' will be in the cookery suite - dropping it as a subject, but enabled to do more practicals, which he loves.

Some 'frees' will be spent in the art dept, with support to develop the portfolio needed for the college application. I had to push hard for that, so we'll see how it goes.

I have mixed feelings, but there is no doubt that he seems happier with the idea of being away from the bullies, and fewer exams to fail, plus time spent on his sketch book.

Meanwhile, awaiting appointments to pursue a potential ASD-or-something-else diagnosis.

Thanks again

It sounds like you and ds have had a really difficult time Bring, I'm glad there seems to be a way forward, I hope the new timetable works well for him.

I have have a year 11 Ds that was diagnosed with ASD in September. It's a very difficult age for them to go down the assessment route but very necessary when they are struggling. Ds does not have difficulties academically but we have still had plenty of battles with his school.

Good luck, hope it all works out.