considering a school/ travelling on a tube - year 7 ( 40 min with the change)

[newtothis15]

i am considering a school when my DS would have to travel on a tube. From where we live, I do not know any children who travel to that school, as admissions are done by the ballot system...

what factors shall I consider when travelling? I think the school does not allow to carry phones to school ( I will double check today if definitely not allowed on a journey)

For Dd she needed her phone to look up alternative travel if the tube wasn’t running and google maps so she could see where she was going.

Certainly wouldn’t have sent her without a phone.

School had no issue with phones providing that they were turned off or were on silent in the classroom they were sometimes used as part of the lesson and pupils took a photo of when their homework assignments were put on the whiteboard at the end of the lesson

Whilst I don't have an issue with the journey in principle, I think all the additional trading your DS undertakes would make it too much. Both my DC were getting about 90 mins homework each night even in Y7, and I think the pressure and time stresses would be way too much for an 11 year old. The transition to secondary is hard enough as it is. I would look again at your closer schools.

I don’t think it so much the tube which I don’t think is too challenging, it is the extra time given you have a closer choice.

The key question for me is whether the further school provided a materially better education for your child. So if he is super bright will the local school stretch him and help him grow? Do they stream, are they firm on discipline. I would be weighing up what the benefits of further school is versus an extra 1.5 hours a day of travelling.

I think it's too much. Don't forget they will have a, possibly heavy, school bag, sports bag, maybe an instrument and i think you said they'd have to change tubes too - really horrible in the rush hour. On top of evening training and homework? It would be totally exhausting.

Are there any Overground alternatives - a bus would be more comfortable? And what are your realistic chances of getting into School B? I'd agree that an hours journey for a good school is worth it (youngest DD is currently in Year 7 and doing a 50 minute bus journey in - on afterschool club evenings she has to take 3 trains to get home which takes her an hour). A friend of mine's DD does a 30 minute tube commute - outer North London to North London) which works fine. I think it depends on the line though - before you commit yourself, do the journey at rush hour yourself and if you haven't already, investigate the bus options further. If you do go for it and get in, do a number of practice runs (I stalked DD!)

Strongly consider school A.

I would ignore the Oxbridge thing. My DD goes to a comp that usually sends nobody to Oxbridge- last person was about 10 years ago.

She is just waiting for interview at Oxford. School is convinced she will get an interview.

Given those gcse results I would opt for the nearest school. There is not a vast difference. Where we live results vary from 99% to 25%, in that case I would opt for the better results school.

I think the travel and extracurricular activities will make him very tired and he’d have more energy going to the local school.

The results don’t warrant that amount of travel.

Have you considered the cost involved?

Cost is very little for tube fares I presume he will get a 11-15 oyster card

think of all the wasted traveling time.

I think the scores are too close to have an effect on decision making so the distance would be the decider. All that travel time could cancel out the slightly higher exam results if he ends up tired and not getting work done.

I don’t live in London. My 3 dds catch the train to school. 20 minutes walk to station (or a 7 minute drive), 30 minutes on the train, 10 minutes walk the other end. So the best part of 2 hours travel every day. Ds takes a bus travelling in the opposite direction - no walking involved, but a 45 minute journey, and often a long wait. Do they think it’s worth it? Yes, just about.

But then, as we live in a selective area many of their peers are in the same boat - there is no grammar school in the town we live in, so any child that passes the 11+ and wants to go to a grammar school has to travel - and that’s about a quarter of all children.

If they were the only children travelling I think they’d simply have gone to school locally. Actually, I know they would, because we would have made that decision for them. In your situation,OP. I’d probably choose the local school. But if you don’t, the journey is definitely possible.

I am staggered that a lot of ds's friends travel far and get up before 6am to do so. I wouldn't want it.

Surely it must take its toll?

DD1 is in Y7 at a great school which involves an hour's journey each way (school coach so less demanding than public transport). She's getting up at 6.30am and I'm getting up at 6.00 to walk her (most of) the 15 mins to the bus stop in the dark as she's only 11. We are all exhausted.

She is fractious and unwilling to do homework when she gets home, is unable to do any extra-curricular (school coach does not permit it and she says she's too tired to do anything near home) which means she's given up football and drama, both of which she loved all the way through primary.

I know lots of children do it, but it doesn't mean it's good for them to commute so far from so young an age. My own commute to secondary was about 40 mins and I hated it.

Our 1st preference school would have been approx 25 mins door-door, one train on London Transport. Would have cost approx £1300 pa, IIRC. There's not a day goes by I don't wish she had got a place there instead.

I would say that the results of School A - although there are flaws in the measurement of Progress8, a score of +0.93 is very impressive - are sufficiently good that there is no need to consider such an extreme journey.

However, if you particularly want single sex, I can see that could be an over-riding factor.

I would always say that a rich extra-curricular life + a nearish good school is a much more balanced life for a young person than a life that is centred around travelling to a slightly better but much further away school.

What is each school's approach to homework? I can see that if School B has a heavy homework schedule then the combination of travel time and homework might very quickly squeeze out extracurricular activity - or alternatively having to do homework while travelling or having to do it late at night / early in the morning to fit round very long days would mean that your child wouldn't be getting the full benefit from the slightly better school.

Our 1st preference school would have been approx 25 mins door-door, one train on London Transport. Would have cost approx £1300 pa, IIRC. There's not a day goes by I don't wish she had got a place there instead.

If that was a state school, you could try a reapplication and appeal? No guarantee of success, but failure wouldn't leave you (your DD, rather) any worse off.

Thanks @MarchingFrogs but we don't have any grounds for appeal. We were just too far away this year (would have got in in any of the preceding 3 years). DD is still way down the waiting list, but I'm keeping her on it just in case a miracle happens.

The school she has really is very good (though no better academically than the other), so we are fortunate to have got a place for her there.

My post was really to say to @newtothis15 not to underestimate how debilitating a long commute can be for a child, if she has a comparably good school nearby (and many people would move house for a 0.93 P8!). Also to illustrate the cost on TfL, though DD's school coach is more expensive still, inevitably.

A 40 minute broken journey, (I.e fighting for a seat twice, 2 tube lines to potentially have issues, being on guard for where to change.) Is not as restful as sitting in a single spot and reading/playing on phone etc for 40 mins. The idea of coming back from that journey then heading out again for training seems particularly tiring. I counsel teenagers for a living and one of the most common presenting causes of anxiety, low mood and emotional stress particularly in the Y7/8 cohort is length of commute. (And, no.. often they haven’t told their parents as they understand it was for a ‘better’ school.

I would suggest you undertake the commute for a full week to get a full idea of what it’s like - a Monday train is different to a Friday one. Bear in mind if you do this during holidays the trains are also quieter.

I would suggest looking for a third option.. if you are in London are there others that you have discounted? Investigate if the school has a coach service.

Thirdly, if you are truly wedded to the school I would try to condense sports and extracurricular activities into school based ones or reduce them entirely so as to reduce transition times.

A final suggestion is you try out the more local school with a view to moving at 13 if it’s not working out, allowing your child to adjust to secondary life before adding in a commute. This is less common these days and may be disruptive/meet with resistance from your child if they have made good friends.

Hope this helps and good luck with the decision.

Lots of kids do this. DD became expert at finishing off homework either at school or doing it on the tube, so rarely brought any home.

Think carefully about music involving large instruments, cricket bags, or art GCSE. DD had a “four bag” day so struggled to get through ticket barriers.

The reliability, frequency, and safety of the journey is important, as is the existence of alternative routes in case of rude strikes. In general tube is better than bus, including school bus, as London roads are forever being dug up.

DD was able to move for sixth form, but before then the journey was the only downside of being in the right school. Private, though curiously state allocations (not our chosen schools) for both DC were more difficult, less safe journeys, one effectively on the other side of London.

I agree with needmoresleep, my dd does quite a lot of homework during break or on the tube (which is two tubes, one change). She’s got train and bus options if the tube isn’t working, though she hasn’t had to use them. She has locker space at school for games kit and her books, so rarely carries more than one bag back and forth (except for swimming days, and if she would use the small travel towel she’d fit that in one bag, too).

So I don’t think 40 minutes is a deal-breaker for the right school. And I certainly don’t worry about air pollution on the tube or things like that - I grew up commuting to school on the tube, it seems like an entirely normal and reasonable thing to do, to me. And a good way of getting confident on public transport, which opens up all sorts of opportunities.

I mean the issue isn't really with the journey but the fact it's not worth it for the destination. Your local school sounds excellent, why on earth would you subject your child to this?

HighRopes, DD was allocated her own special extra large locker, as she played several sports. Tube was better than school bus for her, had there been one, as she was able to get home after training, and equally it was a reasonably easy journey for me for things like plays and parents evenings.

Art GCSE was a pain though, as there was quite a lot of stuff to be carried back and forth carefully. Actually Art GCSE was a pain full stop, but that is a whole different thread.

Leaving aside the question of which school is better, all of my DC went on their own by tube/bus to school and back, involving change of train, etc. It’s completely normal.

A couple more thoughts!

needmoresleep I agree the locker point is crucial. New check the availability and criteria for having a locker (it varies between 2 for each child and none at all!) This could significantly improve commute quality.

Also... investigate whether its possible to borrow a school instrument for music lessons. My son does this and it saves him lugging his guitar to and fro school.

Finally.. how much homework is done online? (Reducing books to carry) I think this is relatively new but its impacting my sons maths and science load!

2 of my children take the train to their (different) schools, from SE London out against commuter traffic, so quite quiet. It's only 22 minutes, one train - but by the time they walk to the station and then on to school the other end, it's about an hour.

It has never bothered my son (now y11). My daughter really really minded it throughout y7 and 8, but is accustomed to it now.

The 'pluses': they are very independent. Some of my friends drive their 13 yr and 15 yr olds everywhere. Mine are pros on the Citymapper App, and can get themselves in and out of anywhere in London, and I am pleased to give them the little freedom and independence they have, compared to my teen years.

When things have gone wrong with the transport, it has been scary, but they managed. And learned, and it's not scary any more. And thank heaven for phones so I could direct them to alternative routes. And my eldest has the uber app, and they all piled into a cab 2 weeks ago (they are not ever allowed to get into a cab/ uber alone.)

They both like the time on the train: sometimes a little extra revision/ last minute homework time; mainly, a time to hang out with the many other school friends doing the commute. Their train friends are almost closer friends than their classmates.

Cons: the time. DD has clubs at lunchtime, DS had some after school, and would get back from rugby at 6pm. But he coped. The expense: I feel like I am constantly putting money on their zipcards...the bus would be free, but takes 90 minutes, not even door to door.

Overall: like all these things, think it is horses for courses. You 'll know your own child, and know the commute. Try it one day, at the times your child will need to travel and see what you think?

Good luck OP