Y10 and GCSE targets

[Lucyccfc68]

Hi.

DS is in Y10 and got his GCSE targets recently. He was really disappointed as the school have predicted 7 in maths and 6 in everything else. School have said they have done this based on his primary school SATS results and not his achievements from Y7 - Y9. He finished Y9 with school assessing him working at 7's in all subjects except for English, which was 6.

All this is quite new and he feels that his targets should be what school feel he is capable of getting and not based on his SATS. He thinks that school will just settle for him getting grade 6's and not support or encourage him to do better.

Could it be that school have done this, so it makes them look good when he gets higher than 6's as it shows the distance travelled from his SATS?

Thanks

Targets are fixed for the school - if he makes good progress then he should achieve those. It doesn’t mean he can’t expect more or aim higher. Good for him pushing himself!

It’s not to do with the school wanting to “look good” it’s the measure all schools are given by ofsted and the government.

A target isn't a prediction.

I personally don't see why a school would tell pupils targets set from SATs results, but that's all it is, and should therefore broadly be ignored by you and your son.

According to SATs DD1 had a 'target' of C for maths. She ended up being predicted an A and achieved a high B.

At some point he will probably get predictions which will be teachers best guess based on current attainment and work ethic.

The teachers will want every pupil to do the very best they can. They won't 'settle' for a 6 if they think he is capable of more. (Remember a child 'over achieving' counterbalances another under achieving.)

Well the SATs set the sets they are in

Higher sets will be taught more at a faster pace.

Lower sets are left to rot..... yes looking at DS classes VDD classes

Not sure lower sets are left to rot. All grades count.

I have twins - the difference in homework and lesson content is huge

They are left to rot

My DD is in lower sets and is not being left to rot!

In a good school SATs shouldn't determine sets long term. Perhaps initially, but there should be adjustment during y7 and at least at the end of very year.

Yes DD gets less / easier homework than higher sets, but she wouldn't be able to cope with the same demands of top sets (because if she could do it she'd be in those sets).

Those are the targets that the school is measured on. Yes, it's a ridiculous system that they are based on KS2 SATS, but that's the system we have.

I tell my children to ignore their targets.
Your school should be working with your child to get the best out of him, regardless of his target. School will certainly want him to get 7s if he is capable (apart from anything else this makes their Progress 8 look good).

But if your school is still setting in Y10 based on KS2 SATS, you should definitely query that.

Also worth reading this recent thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3727274-Y7-assessements-any-Secondary-parents-teachers-able-to-help

Are they targets or predictions? If targets, then it's up to him to exceed them and make everyone happy.
Lower sets are not left to rot IME. And not all schools set for anything but maths.
Ds2 in year 10 was disappointed at a target of 7 for PE, his fave subject, but I explained to him that it shouldn't hold him back and he ended up with a 8, three marks off a 9. Say the same to your ds.

I can give you an actual example of this. My son was average at primary school but achieved level 5 for maths and level 4 for English.

The computer system in school for secondary predicted him a 6 for maths for GCSE in year 10 and would allow his teacher to over-ride it to a 7 but no higher. So every time throughout year 10 his AP1, 2, 3 would say predicted grade 7 which is teacher would cross through and write 9 because that is what he was achieving.

For his actual GCSEs he achieved a 9 in maths and an 8 in English lang, way above the KS2 SATS flight path.

His year 10 "predictions" had him down as 6, 6 for science when he actually achieved 9,9. In fact he was predicted 5 x grade 6s, the rest were 7+ and he went on to achieve one 7, three 8s and the rest were 9s.

Your son knows he can do better and can work hard and achieve more. Plus he is in year 10, he has time.

DD is predicted a 4 in maths (based on lacklustre SATS results).
Didn't stop the school putting her in the top maths set (where the expectation is that everyone will get 7+).
The school should be teaching you child, not a generic child with their target.

Thanks everyone.

I believe they are targets not predictions.

At his school they didn't put them in sets in Y7 based on SATS, but on the schools own tests.

He's in top set for every subject and I have just had a chat with him and told him to ignore the targets and aim for what he thinks he can achieve.

We'll see what school day at parents evening.

Thanks

My kids' schools gave them regular targets based on Sat's but then predicted grade targets based on what they felt they could actually reach for. My eldest two ended up busting the Sat's based targets. It's nice to have targets you can beat!

The school will help your son achieve more, both for his and their results. A student who has a lower target than they are capable of will be supported to get their best, it gives more positive progress results for the school and super results for your son. X

Isn't this to do with progress 8? Secondary schools are judged on the difference they make from sats to GCSE scores so they give a prediction based on sats and then if a child exceeds that in GCSEs it boosts the school's P8 score. So any school with any sense will be trying to support kids to do better than their predicted scores.

Targets are statistically generated. They're generally a minimum expectations depending on which target setting method they use. It doesn't matter what target they set because progress 8 is done differently.

To be honest, I'm fairly surprised that a school is telling students they're ending y9 on GCSE grades unless they've actually been sitting full GCSE papers in GCSE conditions.

I've taught y7-9students to write analytically to grade 6/7 standard, but there's no way they were "working at a 6" unless they'd demonstrated that they were able to:

• consistently answer a full GCSE Language paper in 1h45mins and half of that is planning and writing an unseen creative writing task in 45 mins
• consistently able to complete a 2h15 minute literature paper on closed books texts and unseen poetry (and could demonstrate this competency across a range of themes and characters)

If your child's school have been doing that then their idea of leaving y9 on set GCSE grades is accurate. More likely they're GCSE grading individual pieces or giving an overall progress score which doesn't translate to GCSE grades because that's not how GCSE grades are meant to be used.

Don’t read too much into it - alot of the kids I teach have a target of 6-7 based on generic tests. It’s just a way for the school to monitor progress, and targets are often completely inaccurate, which the teachers all know. (The student could have been having a bad/good day when testing took place. They also somehow manage to predict grades in music and art from English/maths tests!) The teachers are also judged on whether the students exceed these targets, so don’t worry about him not being pushed as the target grade should be a minimum.

Hi Lucy,
Your school is correct that your son's targets are based on sats performance, however this does not cap him achieving more. I don't think that any decent school would stop encouraging your son to exceed these targets as this would effect their progress 8 score which is also reported as a measure. The higher his grades the better their progress 8 score as this is the measure of progress from Ks2.
I wouldn't get too hung up on what his target says and just strive for the best grade your son can achieve, if he is already working at grade 7s at the end of y9 that is very impressive. I would question the validity of these grades and whether they are from a GCSE papers or in house assessments in order that you are understanding the schools reporting properly as all schools now use very different leveling systems now we don't have national curriculum levels.
I hope that helps

When I was in school, my targets were actually a grade or 2 lower than my predicted grades. Maybe it was so the school would look better by being able to say students had beaten their targets, or maybe it was to take pressure of me.

little
It's nothing to do with the school looking better.
I see this suggestion on MN all the time and it's wrong.

Schools are held accountable for cohort progress between ks2-4. Targets don't come into it in terms of making the school look good or otherwise.

In a good school, targets are a useful way of getting a ball park estimate of what you'd expect a typical student of that entry to achieve. Not all students will achieve their target grade because at each ability level there will be a bell curve at the end of y11, some will score higher and others lower.

In a poor school, they're a stick to beat staff with and staff get ridiculous targets themselves that are largely unattainable.

Your son is a keener, he just needs to learn to deal with things. His aspirations are too high, which means he is a nerd. Especially since he's in top set . Take his lunch money off him and call him a stupid nerd,(also chuck his books on the floor).

Our school always provided two predictions: one the target based on KS2 SATs, the other the school's target based on what teachers considered possible. The former remained static, the latter fluctuated. My DDs both got 5s in SATs too and far exceeded the 'official ' predictions. Their teachers were pretty spot on.

And no-one was 'left to rot' at their school. Everyone was supported to achieve the maximum possible.

The insinuation that any of us would leave our pupils to rot is, quite frankly, insulting.

Can't add anything to what others have said except to maybe offer your DS an incentive for every one of those targets he smashes so that he remains focused on doing his best and not get bogged down in underwhelming (albeit computer generated) targets.

Either way, with his attitude, I'm sure he'll do well in life.

Targets e usually five based on sats and ate a load of BS, sorry to say. Teachers have no input in these, despite then wanting to. My niece is a high achiever but can't to UK in year 5 not speaking any English so did poorly in the tests and all her targets were super low, particularly English, and Terry she got 7/8 and 9s in her GCSEs. Tell your son these are not personal and have nothing to do with his ability.