What to look out for / find out when visiting a sixth form

[RedskyToNight]

As title says really. Sixth form open days are in November/December round here and realise I have no idea what we should be looking for.
In an ideal world DS would take the lead, but he doesn't know what he wants, so would like to give him some ideas of things to consider.

So far I have

• entry requirements (general and subject specific)
• how many external candidates do you take?
• what the entry process for external candidates?
• how many directed study hours / independent study hours expected?
• class sizes
• pastoral care
• extra curricular opportunities
• (for faith school) how big a part does the faith play in the sixth form?

Any others?

Qualifications & subjects offered. Do they have what your DC is interested in doing?

How much flexibility is there if DC1 isn't 100% certain at the start?

Most importantly - what's the general vibe? How does it feel? Will your DC fit? Does it fit your DC?

What exam board does the course use
What curriculum options does the 6th form choose for the course
(eg what topics are selected in history, which module selections for a BTEC)

Level of contact with parents. (e.g. at some Hants 6th form colleges not everyone gets a parents evening). So number of parents evenings, parent portal to view attendance etc.

We have (DS has) applied already (needed simple decisions).
I don't find most those things vary much between the places we look, or maybe they wouldn't influence DS's decision, anyway.

We did ask about entry requirements, esp. the specific grades needed to do which A-levels. The 6th form DD is at, required min. A (7) to do any A-level subject. The 6th forms DS is looking at only requires a 5 for most topics.

DS has struggled to decide which A-levels, so we asked students what were they doing on their A-level, how did they spend their time, how did they choose which A-levels to do. DS needed most to speak to the current students, almost his own age, to engage with the visit.

For me, some important questions were:

Do they offer the subject combination my son wants to study?
Did all of those subjects actually run this year?
(they might not run if numbers are low)

How feasible is the journey?

Are the destinations of leavers similar to the plans and aspirations my son has?

What is the SEN support like, and do I feel confident that they will meet his needs?

What support do they offer with decisions about what to do next. And does it cover the sort of thing your son is likely to want, whether that be university, apprenticeships, getting a job etc.

And is it guaranteed that the subjects he wants (if he knows) will actually run? Is there a minimum class size that will be required for any minority subjects.

Definitely what they do to support UCAS applications if that is what your DS is intending.

Careers support

Opportunities such as Duke of Edinburgh

Any 'extras' to support individual subjects - field trips, visiting speakers, attending talks at local unis, or professional institution s etc

Sport/music etc opportunities

Good careers guidance from professionals not teachers who dabble. Getting to the next step and ensuring they make an informed decision is one of the most important aspects of sixth form life.

See if you can talk to a pupil who joined the sixth form at the school you’re looking around having previously attended the school your DS currently attends. They will know first-hand how the two compare.

Are the teachers qualified to teach the subjects he chooses. What are results like in those subjects? Are there subject weaknesses at the college and do students progress to the sort of universities or post 6th form education you and DS aspire to? What careers advice is on offer and what guidance is there for choosing sensible subjects which meet his needs and abilities?

Number of 'A' levels typically taken. If you start with 4 can you drop to 3? And when?

Any option to change subjects if it appears (early enough) that a mistake has been made.

Additional opportunities to support subject - field trips, visits to universities, visiting speakers etc.

Support with applications for veterinary, medicine, Oxford, Cambridge etc. if likely to be a factor.

Sports available, even if just at a recreational level.

Opportunities to take on additional leadership responsibility - can be particularly relevant if joining a Sixth Form with a high proportion of internal students.

Uniform or dress code. General facilities.

Communication between teachers, parents, students. What, when, how...

How separate is the Sixth Form from the main school? Are the students treated as young adults with opportunities to be independent and 'grow up'.

What happens on 'Results Day' with regard to applications? What are the deadlines?

As a retired Sixth form teacher and tutor I have to say that you need to know exactly what you want to get out of the sixth form. Do you want to your DS to get highly qualified academically and superbly well prepared to make a brilliant UCAS application and then get into a Russell Group university? If so, you need to look at the success rate of the college or school in doing just that, so you need to ask for their "final destination" data. If your son has any special needs then that is the first thing to find out about, as if they are not taken care of properly than he will not be happy and will not succeed as well as he should. We need a little bit more ino about your DS as the info you have given is a bit vague. As some other MNers know I have written the book about getting into a top uni from a state school so I will pm you about this.

We need a little bit more ino about your DS as the info you have given is a bit vague.

Ah, I've been boring on about my DS (but under several name changes) for quite a while on Secondary Ed threads

Basically he is high ability but very lazy and doesn't see the point in putting any effort unless he sees the point. This has possibly changed in Year 11, but he has no idea what he wants to do in Post 16. He would like to do A Levels but he will need to up his game to be an A Level student. And he hates every subject except geography so not sure what he would study anyway. So we really have to cover the entire range of options when considering a sixth form.

I think DS is best summed up by one of his teachers at parents' evening.

"DS is very able and has the potential to do well. But he has to actually have the hunger to do this, and I'm not sure that he has"

So in summary - if he ups his game we're looking at somewhere for A Levels for top rank uni; if he doesn't we're looking at vocational qualifications while he works out what it is he wants to do!

What is the breakdown of marks for the subjects your ds wants to take? If the sixth form has a great reputation, but your ds wants to do economics, and the results for that subject are pretty rubbish, it’s probably not the best choice.

Matilda
he doesn't know what he wants to take ... it doesn't make it easy!

Get him to imagine himself opening his results slip on results day. What sort of place or future does it open the door to? Will he be heading to a future as wealthy as the top 20% of students at his school? (Ok money not everything but status can be).

So you need to go to all the open days and see what they say about how they monitor progress and how much independence they give students. And bear in mind that you may not want too much independence, if he's going to see it as an opportunity not to work!

We went to three sixth form open events and their approaches were quite different.

Do you have a massive list of possibles OP? DS2 wanted to do PE Alevel and only one school he could reasonably get to unaided actually offered it so the decision was easy!

Do you have a massive list of possibles OP?

not really. his current school sixth form has the lowest entry criteria anywhere, plus they obviously know him, so he should get a place there to do something. Plus being lazy, he'd rather not move schools :)

However, his current school sixth form doesn't offer one subject that he might like to do (Computer Science) and has a requirement that if you choose A Level Physics (which is on the possible list) you must do A Level Maths (other places allow Core maths with Physics). And another local school offers a much wider range of BTechs that current school So going somewhere else would give him more flexibility (if he wants it, which he might not). We do have a problem in that there's only 3 schools he could sensibly get to independently (everywhere else involves getting public transport to centre of town, waiting ages, then getting more public transport out again, so taking 2 hours to go about 6 miles) and whilst if it was for real benefit DH/I could shuffle our work hours so to be able to take him - we'd really rather not unless another sixth form offers something that nowhere else does (which we've not seen yet). Anywhere very selective is crossed off the list for obvious reason.

I also think it's good to get DS to visit at least a couple of other places, just to broaden his horizons even if he ends up sticking where he is!

Yes we were in a sinmilar situation; his current school (v near); one in town (easy bus ride but PE BTEC not A level); one in next village (v highly rated but again, PE BTEC not A level). We did go and see that one but were generally not very impressed actually (maths teachers didn't seem great, computing offer was poor).

Then like you it was a case of bus into town and out again for the rest of the options. He did get a place at one of those but in the end they scrapped the A level PE option so that was a no.

Has he taken tests like the Meyer-Briggs tests to try to help him think about what sort of career he might like to do? Is there a career dept at his school who could help him do this? There are many of these on line. They are quite fun to do and often open up possibilities to a student that he/she might never otherwise have thought of. Try a search using "career choice questionnaires", it might help.

All of the above plus the 'feel' of the place. Is it warm / nurturing / aspirational? etc. We are going through this process at the moment and have also been very taken by forthcoming and enthusiastic student ambassadors. The principal's speech is important and so is (might sound superficial but) the overall presentation of the college at the open events, from the way you are greeted to the way you are bid goodbye.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if getting to a particular school is a problem, can he not simply ride a bike to it? No idea where you live or anything, but 6 miles in and out of town must equate to say 4 miles on a bike which wouldn't take much more than 20 minutes - half an hour, and he'd keep a bit fit!
Maybe he just needs to do the A-levels/Btech he feels most comfortable doing and see how things go from there. Believe me an awful lot of year 11s feel like this. They generally sort themselves out in the end. If he is considering Computer Science and Physics, particularly the latter, make sure he realises this is not a subject you can be lazy in and get a good grade. Here is an interesting conversation which includes the A levels mentioned. www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2637445
I put Maths.physica and Computer Science into this website for you to see what kinds of degree he could do with them, he may be surprised at some of them, I was! university.which.co.uk/a-level-explorer

Stanley realise my post was possibly a bit confusing.

The schools we think he can get to independently would be by cycling (furthest is about 3.5 miles away)

We have several other schools about 6-8 miles away (different directions). If he goes by public transport he has to go into town and then out of town (which will make the journey significantly longer). The direct routes are along main roads where it's not safe to cycle so the shortest sensible cycling route would probably add another couple of miles (and even then he'd be crossing some pretty lonely areas). Yes, he probably can cycle this, but I'm not sure planning to do this on a day to day basis in all weathers through the year is really ideal, so we need an alternative plan! (DH cycles 5 miles to work and I walk 1.5 miles or cycle 3 miles depending on where I'm going, so we are very much a walking/cycling family - the car would normally stay at home all day! As neither DH or I would fancy the cycle route to some of the further away schools we figure it's not really fair to expect a 16 year old to do it).

Your points about DS potentially picking hard courses is spot on - but experience says that DS actually does work at things he's interested in (geography, the one subject he likes, being a case in point). Just need him to decide what he's interested in!

Understand now about the bike thing.
Has he tried putting Geography into that last website instead of one of the other A levels?

I think if he does the BTec route, his course options post 18 might be more limited. These are vocational courses. They prep for a vocation. If he doesn’t know what vocation, how can he choose a BTec with any confidence?

If he’s not bothered about Maths, how could CS be a sensible subject? I’m with the school on Physics too.

Why not do Geography A level and two more of his choice? Biology can go well if he’s into the environment but the other A level could be anything! What hobbies does he have? What are his best subjects? Are there new subjects like Business Studies that might be attractive to him? What about Sociology or Psychology?