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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

St Michaels catholic grammar, Holland Park school, grey coat hospital

24 replies

wurlycurly · 22/10/2019 23:38

We have a place in one and a good shot at the others. Which one would you choose?

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Zinnia · 22/10/2019 23:51

The one closest to my house. Not kidding.

Though opinions tend to be quite divided on Holland Park, I don't know it personally but you might want to read recent threads on here.

Seriously, if you live near W11 (which I presume you do as that's the one of the three with a distance criteria), then I wouldn't put your daughter through a horrible commute to Finchley every day, so Greycoats rather than St Michaels. Surprised you haven't applied to Marylebone as well though.

JoJoSM2 · 23/10/2019 10:36

I’d choose the grammar school followed by whichever comp is easier to get to.

VickyBHF · 23/10/2019 11:48

Holland Park and GCH have a completely different feel to them - couldn’t be more different! Depends which you feel would suit your daughter better. Haven’t seen St M personally so can’t comment.

FanDabbyFloozy · 23/10/2019 12:18

Depends where you live. If it's on the Northern line and an uncomplicated trip (even if long), I'd probably say St Michael's. Great academically, strong pastoral care, good behaviour from the girls (and later boys in 6th form), less homework load in recent years. But it's not a hothouse - no end of year awards, no publishing place in class, no off-rolling kids who struggle academically or with teenage issues.

FanDabbyFloozy · 23/10/2019 12:20

It's also not a liberal school. There are rules to ensure it runs smoothly, so if you've got a rebel who likes to challenge the status quo, they will find it a challenge.

PhonicTheHedgehog · 23/10/2019 12:38

Oh gosh, what a nice dilemma to have!
Having said that I was thinking what I’d do for my DD in the same circumstances and realised that none of them would really suit her.
We have less good choice on paper but the choices we do have would work for our particular child IYSWIm?
So, I’d say we’d need to know more about your child. The other issue would be the commute so also where you live.

AndNoneForGretchenWieners · 23/10/2019 12:46

Not Holland Park. It isn't particularly welcoming to people who do not fit their ideal. I wouldn't want my child to develop the same views. Can't deny it's educationally sound though, it's just the way they go about it.

wurlycurly · 23/10/2019 13:56

Thanks! Child is bright and well-behaved (for now!) she loved Holland Park and St M’s. We are 45mins from HP and grey coat and over an hour from St M’s.

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peteneras · 23/10/2019 15:01

I know of girls who lived in Peckham who went to St Michael's. For the academics it may be worth the trouble. After all, secondary education is once in a lifetime episode.

Zinnia · 24/10/2019 01:10

To be honest OP you're not going to get a place at HP from 45 mins away. The distance doesn't usually even stretch to Westbourne Grove does it? At least not on offer day.

But as PP says, they are very different schools. Greycoats is very highly regarded, I know some extremely happy parents with girls there. I'd also take 45 mins' journey over an hour's every time. My own Y7 DD is currently doing an hour's commute (not our first preference, long story) and it's shattering for her. I would strongly advise choosing the shorter journey if you possibly can, given these are outstanding schools and a bright, well-behaved and hard-working girl will undoubtedly do really - and equally - well at any of them, as long as the school suits her.

(peteneras is a huge fan of St Michaels, as you will have gathered if you've read the other current thread including this school).

PhonicTheHedgehog · 24/10/2019 09:03

I think the art places at HP are already out Zinnia?

Huffthemagicdragon · 24/10/2019 09:27

I agree that secondary is a once in a lifetime episode. Which is why you really don't want to spend 2.5 hours travelling every day during it and having no friends living nearby.

Totally agree with Zinnia that there's a world of difference between 45 mins and over an hour (which presumably has the danger of being near 1.5 if things go awry). My children have 12 minute train with 5-7 mins walk either end and they too are tired by it and very envious of friends who have a short walk. And realistically, even that v simple very reliable journey you need to leave 35 minutes to do.

wurlycurly · 24/10/2019 10:45

@Huffthemagicdragon she passed the art aptitude test for HP... that’s why it’s in the running suddenly

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hillbilly · 24/10/2019 19:06

Quite a few come from up to an hour away on art aptitude. We are local and it's about 25min walk for my kids. Can't comment on the other schools and HP has its issues like most schools but fir the most part we, and the kids are happy with it.

wurlycurly · 24/10/2019 20:02

Thanks @hillbilly, its difficult to form an opinion about Holland Park because it really divides people. It’s good to have an opinion from someone who sends their kids there.

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peteneras · 24/10/2019 23:13

"I agree that secondary is a once in a lifetime episode. Which is why you really don't want to spend 2.5 hours travelling every day during it and having no friends living nearby."

Hmm. . . yes - friends; local home ones, I take it. Question is, are they really that important so much so you have to factor them in now in determining your life's future direction? A bit short-sighted, I think. What about the tens of thousands who leave home to travel across continents (never mind across London) to capitalise on their once-in-a-lifetime secondary education in another country? What's going to happen to their local home friends?

Fact of the matter is you make new and more varied friends in a new environment. These new friends that you meet at secondary school would most probably remain your life-long friends no matter which direction each of you take after that. But the core reason for leaving home to go afar for most people is to hopefully get a very good education that their local school(s) cannot provide. With a successful education comes a secure and wealthy future when even more "friends" would come buzzing like bees to honey!

But seriously, what price payment is an extra hour of travelling in the morning and evening in return for a solid education? St Michael's Catholic Grammar often reminds parents of the savings they make in sending their girls there as opposed to sending them to equivalent - or even less equivalent - independent schools. For the uninitiated, the savings can be as much as £300K!

marytuda · 25/10/2019 08:21

I'm relieved you've put 'friends' in that context (buzzing like bees to honey to one's wealth . . ) in inverted commas pete! Could never cope with friends like that personally. . Not that I have ever enjoyed that much wealth, maybe that was the problem Wink

Zinnia · 25/10/2019 09:56

@peteneras the OP's daughter is clearly a hard-working, bright and focused girl of the kind who should flourish in any of the schools potentially available to her. No doubt St Michaels is an excellent school, but so are both the others she is asking about. All I, and others, are pointing out is the impact on a long and in all likelihood arduous (it's on London Transport after all) daily journey on a child or young teenager, and balancing that with the quality of education on offer. Even the "best" schools are only the "best" if the child's wellbeing is being supported.

I know you are passionate about the educational choices you have made for your own children, and am happy for you that they have worked out so well, but please understand that not everyone here approaches education from the perspective that private schools are the pinnacle of provision, against which all others must be measured. Not even those of us who went to beloved-on-MN private schools ourselves.

Sorry to go semi-off-topic on your thread @wurlycurly, hope you are able to find the right school for your DD and that more HP/Greycoats parents can contribute their experiences here.

peteneras · 25/10/2019 10:45

I'm glad you read and understood my message well @marytuda. Me too, there're certain "friends" I can do without - not necessarily that I'm coated thick with "honey" but you're only "friend" when they needed you.

But can't say the same about you understanding my message @Zinnia. If you'd looked closely, I said many people left home to go to a far away school to get a very good education that their local school(s) cannot provide. Now, before you start criticising me again, I'd advise that "education" is not only about the academics. It's about educating the whole and complete person, iyswim!

Again, I don't see what my DC's education's got to do with this thread. If they have, and you think they have worked out well, it's only proving that my preachings and opinions are correct. And it also proves that you are wrong in assuming that I think private schools are the pinnacle of provision, against which all others must be measured. . . because my DD's never gone to private school - she went to St Michael's, as it turned out.

wurlycurly · 25/10/2019 11:05

I’m concerned about being close to friends. All of these schools are far enough away to mean there will not be a community of friends nearby. One factor in favour of St M’s is that girls from her primary school will be going. The other two she would be starting from scratch. She says she wouldn’t mind this but the reality may be different of course. I think being a bus ride away from friends is the nature of secondary schools In London. The kids from her primary will be scattering :(

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PhonicTheHedgehog · 25/10/2019 11:50

What’s the nearest school like? Will she get that?

Are you nearer to St Marylebone?

wurlycurly · 25/10/2019 12:18

DD doesn’t want the nearest school. It’s good but not as good as the others. She wants to travel to school, she wants to spread her wings. She is too far from Marylebone to get a catchment place and she didn’t get a scholarship place.

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Zinnia · 25/10/2019 12:25

My DD was in a position (of her choosing, though she did find it daunting initially) of not knowing anyone in her secondary school this term, and it's turned out there are a couple of girls she's friendly with who do live near us, which is more than I'd expected. At her school there were quite a few who'd come from the same primary schools and she did find that inhibiting at first, but she was far from the only child in the same position, and that helped.

The London Schools Atlas is an excellent resource, annoyingly not updated for a couple of years but a useful ready reckoner as to where kids at each school actually live (it maps addresses onto defined postcode areas that LAs use for planning). That will give you a heat map for each school, and also which primaries send most kids there.

Of the three you're looking at, HPS will inevitably have the tightest group of kids living near the school and having been to primary together. Faith school intake tends to be more disparate. It looks like the majority of St Michaels girls live in north London (unsurprisingly) and GCHS in south, presumably because if people are further north they're more likely to opt for Marylebone.

It's been said on these boards many times, but going up to secondary with existing friends is only useful up to a point, most of my DD's primary year went to our local school and have already broken free of their previous groups, only still hanging out with one or perhaps two closest friends. And that's after just half a term!

wurlycurly · 25/10/2019 14:45

That School atlas is a very useful snapshot, thanks.

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