Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Asking about teacher qualifications

43 replies

quadrullioon · 22/10/2019 22:29

DD is applying to sixth forms at the moment, and as she's looking at some subjects where staff recruitment is an issue (maths, physics, computer science) I'd really like to ask schools whether their teachers have degrees in the subjects they're teaching or not. One of the schools has teacher qualifications on their website, but the others don't. Are they obliged to tell you if you ask? (It won't necessarily put us off a school, as I know they might still teach the subject well, but it's something to take into consideration along with everything else).

OP posts:

StanleySteamer · 29/10/2019 14:44

@OnceFreshFish, after telling me I was talking crap you then went on to underline exactly what I was saying!
Did you actually read all of my post? We both agree that subject knowledge does not equal ability to teach it. We both agree that having a PhD does not prevent a teacher from being a good teacher, and I will add now that I do agree that it is necessary for a Maths teacher to have a degree in Maths in order to prepare students for application to top universities such as Imperial. But they do not need a PhD to do this. Proof being that we had many students who went to RG unis to do maths and not one of our Maths teachers had a PhD.
What it boils down to is that there are good and bad teachers at all levels with all different qualifications and in all different schools. Such is life. And before you make another assumption, I taught in a large comprehensive that was creamed by both local grammars and independents. Yet we still got plenty of students into RG unis, me more than most, which is why I was asked to write my book about this and which is why I did so. There is a hell of a lot more to getting into a RG uni than simply A-level grades. and funnily enough, one of my chapters is entitled "What to do if your teacher isn't up to the job". Face it mate, IT HAPPENS.

CuckooCuckooClock · 29/10/2019 14:53

There is no such thing as “having knowledge so deep that you cannot simplify it for the average child” stanley
Depth of knowledge of your subject is absolutely a prerequisite to teaching it well imo and it certainly isn’t a barrier. What rubbish.

OnceFreshFish · 29/10/2019 14:57

@StanleySteamer

Your post was rubbish because you suggested that having very deep and advanced subject knowledge put you at a disadvantage when explaining more simple subjects. This isn't true. Having a PhD doesn't guarantee you'll be an excellent teacher (any more than not having a PhD means you'll be great at explaining simple topics) but it does mean you'll be able to teach at a higher level than a teacher without PhD level knowledge. Don't forget many teachers don't even have degree level education in the subject they're teaching. At A-level this is very definitely a disadvantage. OP is absolutely right to enquire about the qualifications the teachers have. She doesn't have to assume the school with the most PhD's is the best but it can form part of her judgement.

OnceFreshFish · 29/10/2019 14:59

@CuckooCuckooClock

It's not nobbish to hope that a teacher has a degree in the subject they're teaching at A-level.

OnceFreshFish · 29/10/2019 15:00

Although I would hope parents would be tactful in the way they asked that question. Marching up to someone and demanding to know if they're suitably qualified definitely makes you a bit of a nob!

CuckooCuckooClock · 29/10/2019 15:01

It is nobbish to quiz teachers about their qualifications (unless you’re on an interview panel).

AllStarBySmashMouth · 29/10/2019 15:02

I don't think it's a very smart thing to do - but I suppose you could put in an FOI to find out.

CuckooCuckooClock · 29/10/2019 15:02

X post
Ok yes that’s what I meant. I can’t see how you could do it tactfully. Would you also ask what class of degree they achieved and where from?

StanleySteamer · 29/10/2019 15:07

OK, @OnceFreshFish, I framed my thoughts wrong, what I really meant to say was that some teachers, only some mind, had great depth of knowledge but found it hard to simplify it to the point at which it was accessible to youngsters. Call it poor ability to teach, call it what you like, but it does happen, and I am sure you have seen it from teachers of all types. Just as not all teachers can control a class well enough to get their subject across.

StanleySteamer · 29/10/2019 15:13

My school used to have a staff list available to the general public upon which each member of staff's name had their qualifications right next to it.
Now, on the website, the teaching staff list is still there for all to see with their individual school email address, but no mention of their qualifications. Some call it progress.

Drabarni · 29/10/2019 15:16

I think parents should be made aware of the teachers qualifications and subject specialism.
Maybe not on an individual basis, more of a departmental level.

Some schools used to put them on the website, not sure if they still do.
Situations I found myself in shouldn't be allowed to happen. It's bad enough for the students but they als lose good teachers.

I was good at teaching my own subject and was head hunted various times because of the industry experience i had to back up my Degree and PgCE.
There was no reason to continue though as at every school/college I found the same.
Of course teachers should be able to cover most subjects and be prepared to teach outside their comfort zone (the response I got from the union) But to actually have to teach a subject when you have an average ks2 intelligence at Advanced/further level is not just outside comfort zone. I'd have been complaining if it had been one of my children.
It's happening in schools nationwide.

scarecrowfeet · 29/10/2019 15:17

I've taught a subject for 22 years that I don't even have a GCSE in !

CuckooCuckooClock · 29/10/2019 15:32

People like you scarecrow are partly why parents shouldn’t judge teachers based on qualifications.
I have a degree, phd and pgce in my subject from prestigious institutions but in my first few years teaching I was pretty crap (like most inexperienced teachers are) but parents were really impressed by my cv. Parents (and students imo) are fairly crap judges of good teachers.

Drabarni · 29/10/2019 15:51

Scarecrow

I bet it isn't Maths

StanleySteamer · 30/10/2019 10:14

@CuckooCuckooClock
I thought I had finished with this thread, but I will leave one more comment as you are soooo right! Parents and children judge teachers on all sorts of criteria and so many of them are, as you say, crap.
If you are old, if you don't crawl up the kids arses to make them work, if you expect them to do stuff, like homework, if you expect them to obey the rules, then kids can hate you. Yet they still end up getting great grades and going on to do your subject at A-level or beyond. The quiet kids who appreciate a good teacher never say anything for fear of reprisals. but then shitty kids are always the most vocal. And as for parents...

At a "meet and greet" for sixth fromer's parents a woman sat down at my table and announced "it is such a shame my daughter has to have a male tutor". So I went and got the Head of Sixth who had a quiet word with her and told her that her daughter had been lucky enough to be put in the "Elite" tutor group and that I was that Elite tutor, cos I knew my business better than any other. So the girl stayed and after all the work we all did together in the group, and my going through her personal statement with her 7 times, she got onto a prestigious course at Nottingham of which there was only one in the country. At least the daughter had the good grace to write me a thank you card afterwards!

Finding out the qualifications of a teacher only tells you what they are like on paper, nothing else.

Surreyhillsbutnobike · 30/10/2019 18:05

@StanleySteamer

What was your book title? A quick search can’t find it

Obviously a good teacher can cover lots but a specialist will have better in depth knowledge

StanleySteamer · 01/11/2019 22:37

@Surreyhillsbutnobike, anti-spamming rules prevent me from giving you the title of my book, much though I would like to. Some person decided that I was trying to make a fortune from pm-ing the odd MNer who asked me about it, so I have had to shut up about it. I dare not even give you the key words to search for it/them. But believe me it(they) are there, and if your child is trying to get into a RG uni and is not in a private school then this book would be for you.

AppleKatie · 01/11/2019 22:48

The best and most respected FM and maths teacher I know at a top independent has an engineering degree.

Have they got a degree in X is too simplistic a question.

My school publish our names and titles/letters eg Mrs AppleKatie BSC (Leeds) PGCE - But not the subject. That is I think enough. I don’t think a FOI request could force the school to give away personal data?

NB: I have neither a BSC or a degree from Leeds 😊

Flip

1 2