Singing for GCSE music

[AChickenCalledDaal]

Anyone got a child who has done the new 9-1 GCSE music using their singing voice? What kind of thing did they sing and did they have private lessons?

DD2 has just started the course and is enjoying everything except one-to-one singing lessons. She started the lessons to support the GCSE, because we thought it would be a good idea. But there's something about the experience of singing to a teacher in a small room that she really hates. She can't really articulate why. She's certain it's not the teacher, but something about the dynamics of a private lesson.

She's got a good, strong voice and sings in key. She can get really nervous but they record their performances and I think she'll get to grips with that. She also sings in the choir and they do ensemble work in class.

She does also have drumming lessons, which she loves. But she's only just doing grade 1 drumming and I'm unclear how useful it will be for the GCSE.

We're having a conversation with her class teacher as well but I'd be interested in anyone's experience.

Hello Comefromaway

This is exactly what the above syllabus is like too. I know that dd peers aren't allowed to choose simpler pieces, but of course they aren't representative either.
Hope all is well with you all. I can't believe your dd is Uni age, it seems like yesterday we were discussing our dc's futures.

@AChickenCalledDaal is there a chance of a different singing teacher who maybe teaches a different style. The days of only ABRSM singing teachers are long gone and there are musical theatre and rock singing teachers who all teach to grading schemes. I might just be she needs a different style of singing and of teaching.
The only contribution I can provide is where we needed all three performing arts ( a triple threat daughter), but can only do two for GCSE. The music department advised that Grade 5 theory and at least grade 6 merit for voice would similar to a 7/8 at GCSE and would allow A-level music if that was required.

Thanks Malbec, that's a particularly useful perspective.

It is the Eduqas syllabus that they do and I've had a look at the spec and mark scheme. Judging by the ensemble they are currently rehearsing in class, she's already in the right territory in terms of difficulty and she's still in year 10.

I have no doubt that her levels of control, expression, diction etc could be improved through the right private lessons. But only if she can get her head in the right place to work with the teacher. Much to think about.

OP, maybe it’s the type of songs on the curriculum that your DD finds hard to engage with?
As PPs have said, there is also now the “Rock School” curriculum that some may find more relatable?
Does she have a friend or know someone who may want to join in the lesson with her? It may take the pressure off the 1:1 a bit and be more fun?
Otherwise, if the school are taking care of the harmony performance and she just needs to nail one song at Grade 4-ish nearer the time, I’m sure she’ll be fine.
I don’t know what actual grades the songs DS sang were because his singing teacher is in the school and she sorted it all. It was “Maria” from Westside Story though, so it was quite simple and probably deliberately so. He got full marks. At least he could engage with the song which would have been more difficult maybe if it was one of the Italian arias or something!

"Mine is on track for a level 9 she's singing Handel's Messiah. and extended counterpoint harmony in the ensembles" ... that's going to be a long performance. And what's counterpoint harmony when it is at home? Absolute rubbish to say you need those Grade 5s.

Sorry, that sounded rather snarky. But there is such rubbish written here, no wonder, amongst other reasons, numbers for GSCE and A level music are dropping so fast. Listen to someone like Malbec who actually does the job, rather than hearsay. Which school is it that demands those Grade 5s? Sounds like lazy teaching to me if you only want pupils who are half way there before they start ... talk about barriers to learning, it's the school itself!

Well you might have a point Moomin because as I say, most of them got “9s” in music at DS’ school, yet none of them think they’re good enough to do A-level music This is because the two who are taking music A-level are basically composing full symphonies left, right and centre. They conduct orchestras and choirs and play just about any instrument available to an incredible standard. So the others didn’t feel up to it. Maybe in another school, DS might have taken A-level music, who knows? He’s still singing though.

I’m not sure it’s entitely fair to say it’s “rubbish” that schools are asking for Grade 5 for music GCSE as this does indeed happen in many schools and will be some people’s genuine experience. Schools do steer you towards GCSEs you are likely to do better in. For instance, I know many are advised against doing Art GCSE because teachers believe the student won’t be inclined to put the required work in.

The PP who said her daughter sang the Messiah for GCSE probably meant that she sang an excerpt of this. This wouldn’t be out if the ordinary. The choir and orchestra at DS’ school who are all under 18 have performed the whole of Mozart's Requiem which is about an hour long. There are many performances like this several times a year. In fact, the truth is that the “musicians” in the school didn’t even bother taking music GCSE as they were already beyond it in Year 7, so thought it more useful to focus in other subjects. If you’re in this kind of school that requires at least Grade 5 etc, you would just presume that’s the GCSE curriculum guidance - as I did!

Moomin - I’m not going to name the school, that wouldn’t be fair but Drabarni already said her Dds school isn’t representative as it is a specialist MDS school (as my dd’s School also is) Drabarnis child is at the music equivalent of the Royal Ballet School.

But (sigh) Ds came home yesterday and told me he wants to sing Jason Robert Brown’s Moving Too Fast for his GCSE. Now I’ve got to persuade a boy with PDA/ODD that it’s a very bad idea to sing such a hard song.

Re: counterpoint harmony

Renaissance counterpoint is often primarily melody based so is known as melodic counterpoint.

The rules of counterpoint in baroque music often produces harmonies and is known as harmonic counterpoint.

I know it's the thing she was doing in Y8/9, with classical studies, this is Jazz, impro, scat, etc.
it's from her Jazz harmony lessons.

Moomin

Sorry, it wasn't me who said needing grade 5 theory, and also said my dd wasn't representative, but was giving another voice to the variety of responses.
Mine did grade 5 theory relatively late to her peers as has learning difficulties, some were aged 8 she was 14.
The Handel will of course be only one small part, the jazz another small part.

Mine found GCSE music hard- not because of the performance, but because of the composition requirements. She got a B overall and was unhappy, regretting her choice as her other subjects were much more stellar results wise - and to be honest, though she continues to sing/play piano and guitar, she has never needed GCSE music...

So, could a child still get a good overall grade at gcse, playing a grade 3 standard piece well?
Prediction from school for music high [8] yet this would seem unlikely if grade 5 performance piece needed?
Will ask teacher next parent evening but would be a push to be beyond grade 3 I think [piano].

Ps: OCR board...

I’d need to check OCR board mark scheme but with AQA it would mean only a loss of 4 marks out of 72 with the potential to gain far more marks for the standard of the pieces than you’d lose from the pieces being used aside.

Thanks.
He loves his music but only started piano at secondary school.
Enjoys the composing side etc.
He is at a school where many start an instrument in year 7.
In the choir and about to do his second musical at school.
So may not be high standard but doing it all for the love of it...

DinkyDaisy There are students at DC's school who only take up an instrument in Year 9 when they start the GCSE course. I think it's great that the school doesn't exclude them. Enjoying music is definitely key. My DS loves performing, but has really loathed the composing sections.

Dinky, I used to teach OCR prior to the last spec change. Check the mark scheme, in particular the difficulty level/multiplier to see just how much your DC will be penalised by performing a grade 3 piece.

As I have said several times before, it is much better to perform a simpler piece but really get inside the music and nail it than to struggle through a piece classed as More Difficult. The marks you lose in terms of accuracy/technique are greater than the difficulty ones you gain for playing/singing something harder.

It is really sad reading lots of rumours or misconceptions about Music. It is perfectly possible to start learning an instrument in year 7 and be good enough to access top grades at GCSE and I know several people who have done just that. However, this comes with the proviso that the student practises between lessons (not always the case). My own DD started the saxophone in year 7 having had cello lessons since she was 4. She took grade 8 sax at the start of year 12 and played a sax concerto at the Edinburgh Fringe. She didn't do an excessive amount of practice but she put in a couple of hours per week from the start.

A level Music does not require the composing of symphonies either. We require grade 5 Theory in advance of starting the course or it has to be taken in the first term. We like students to be grade 6+ performers but we look at the whole package when advising them early in year 11. We also put them in for grade 8 Theory which they study alongside A level. Apart from the UCAS points, academic university music departments love it and offers are normally 2 grades lower if they have both grade 8 practical and grade 8 Theory.

Different schools do things in different ways. We normally manage to get a small A level group each year but it's tough. I'm happy to answer questions if others have them - I don't always check in here but I can answer by PM if people prefer it.

DD did music GCSE. She got grade 8 in her instrument in year 7. She played a grade 4 or 5 piece in her GCSE and got full marks. She got a 9 overall.
Her friend sang - she started singing lessons in year 8 but was a keen and confident singer before that. She's never done grades or exams and not done any theory. She got a 7.
DD was definitely told that a simpler piece played well gets more marks than a difficult piece played badly.

DS2 did Edexcel this summer. His music teacher did say something about a formula that meant the difficulty of his Grade 8 piece was recognised, but not that he could get 'more' marks. He took Grade 8 piano last Christmas so it was natural to use one of those pieces anyway.

Up until last year (not teaching it now, but doubt it's changed) the difference between a perfect grade ii/iii piece and a perfect grade viii piece was a whole 3 marks.

Insisting on grade v is shortsighted and frankly, fucking neglectful of those who can and do learn enough theory in 18 months to, combined with a competent performance and compositions, get grade 7 overall.

My daughter could easily have played an instrument for GCSE but her teachers advised singing was the best option for her to gain all the available marks. (and she did end up with a 9 last year). The ensemble performance specs seem to vary a lot I think - the spec my daughter did her school had realised that an accompanied performer could suffice for ensemble so that was what they mostly did as it was easier to coordinate.

I think that singing lessons, of all music lessons, are the most intimidating - music is all about your instrument but in singing, you are your instrument. I would however consider a change of teacher if she is not "finding a fit" with the current one. That doesn't mean it has to be a change of music style, the fit will be down to voice, teaching style, personality, lots of things!

Can you talk to her teacher about what they are doing / what might be helpful to try at home?

(by the way, confidence is a very funny thing. My daughter can fill a large space singing a solo, but can still only practise at home if she knows that everyone else is out! and she's just started preparing diploma repertoire)

I think that singing lessons, of all music lessons, are the most intimidating - music is all about your instrument but in singing, you are your instrument.

This seems to be exactly what she's feeling. She says it feels incredibly personal, like she's exposing a really private bit of herself. And I do know what she means, though it's very hard to articulate.

The fact that she's joined the choir and enjoying ensemble singing is a massive step forward, because she wasn't able to do that a couple of years ago. I'm inclining towards letting her drop the lessons. She's not aiming for A level or anything further than GCSE. And I think she can probably pull it off if she's feeling confident and engaging well with class lessons. Which is more likely to happen if we cut her some slack on the one-to-ones.