School support with extra-curricular interests / talents

[folkmamma]

Hoping for some examples of adaptions / compromises your DC's secondary schools have made to support them with their vocations/talents - eg elite sports training, music, theatre work etc.

My DD is a musician and actress. She has a busy panto season ahead as well as keeping up with her training at JD in London. Trying to negotiate some concessions on homework and additional time for practice within the school day. Would be really helpful to have some examples of precedent!!

TIA :-)

@catshavestaff those are pretty much EXACTLY the concessions I'm after!!! She's already out of class music as she has been assigned an extra teacher to cover GCSE syllabus with her during that time (I realise this is a big deal and am v. Grateful!) By getting one out of the way early I'm hoping that later on we can limit to 8 GCSE's in y10/11 and that will free up time.

I've asked about PE/RE/PHSE and was met with a blanket 'no'. Hence I am now going to see the head. I also asked if she could have a floating 30-40 min free on a rotational basis in much the same way that other kids have a rostered instrumental music lesson (as all her tuition happens outside of school). Another no. All of this would only be temporary to see us through to mid jan when panto is finished. Safeguarding was cited- which I do understand but I also think there could be an acceptable work around with a bit of imaginative thinking. She doesn't need supervising - although I accept someone needs to know she is where she's meant to be.

Registration and assembly times could also be utilised- I haven't asked for that yet.

She will use her breaks between shows and some lunch breaks / after school library sessions to make up missed work / school work.

She works very, very hard. I just want to cut the kid some slack where we can!!

She could use the library for free sessions and you could withdraw her from assembly/RE lessons. They’re less likely to let her out of PE because she’s not doing something to directly replace that, like she would be if she came out of music. Good luck, it can be done!

Dd got very little leeway except time off for exams and the occasional concert or funeral (chorister) they made it clear that absence would be considered unauthorised unless exceptional (even singing for the queen was marked as unauthorised but the council accepted my appeal letter!). She never missed any schoolwork, she caught up anything she missed

Your school sounds like they're being extremely difficult. I don't think asking for 40mins every week (equivalent to a music lesson) is unreasonable. Surely there are practise rooms she could use. There are kids at my DDs school that do two instrument lessons per week on a rotation so they don't miss the same academic lesson every week. I'm glad you've got a meeting with the head. Well done to her, it doesn't sound like she would flunk her GCSEs nor does it sound like you'd let her. I imagine the school making it so difficult may make her not like it very much though. Quite sad as it sounds like an extremely impressive achievement.

I do understand her dreams of becoming an actress/musician. But, are you aware of the statistics?

We have a friend whose daughter was a child actress, quite large BBC TV roles. She studied acting at one of the famous schools and does hardly any work now in that field. According to her it is the way around80-90% of acting students end,

She is very grateful that her parents pressed for a decent classical education, she is now thinking of Re-training and re-studying which is only possible due to the good A-Level she got.

I can understand supporting dreams but be realistic about the future.

@reluctantbrit I agree with you despite my DD having a promising musical theatre career and getting some concessions from school academics are as important. DD is aware that she must obtain a qualification that enables her too teach as well as the MT qualifications. She knows that of the academics drop something on the performing front has to go. She is in year 11 now so we dropped two choirs as ensemble singing is strong and switched up ballet to once a fortnight, but a private lesson.
School is on board it is used to supporting children with external supports/performing roles, but even the DC who is GB and European figure skating champion in her age group did 12 GCSEs and got them all at good grades.

It very much depends on what level.

For our top athletes:
Some at national level/international level get time off school, have a dual registration code approved so they attend part of their education at school and part through their club. The days they are in the club, they have mandatory school time and complete work.
Time off for fixtures and tours to other countries (again with their training club facilitating education).

For students who have worked professionally in music or drama, we've given leave for a week to do a series of shows, again with discussion with parents. We don't give them reduced timetables or let them select homework hand in around their schedule though.

Junior division at music college, whilst awesome, wouldn't get changes in timetable and homework.

To be honest, the music changes sound reasonable. Your other approaches sound unreasonably demanding. You're essentially expecting staff to plan their lesson sequences around when it's convenient for your child to do their homework (because timing of homework links to curriculum content often, or homework is used in class etc) and wanting timetable changes that would require more staff supervision so she can drop subjects at a young age.

The reason high level athletes in mainstream school get the adaptationsbis because they have a training body and club who have a key educational element of their role, not just a reduced timetable and change of deadlines to fit around their football/athletics/rowing etc

She's not seeking superstardom as an actress- we are all fully aware how unlikely that is. Hence the importance of supporting her music at a high level as that is something she can make a living out of regardless. What she's actually aspiring to is a portfolio career and yes, playing Elphaba is at the top of her wish list, but also on that list is teaching, session work and running her own kids theatre school. All perfectly attainable.

Thanks for the thoughts on what is reasonable and what is not, all really helpful. 😊

I also feel I should add I don't actually expect teachers to do anything different at all. All I want is for her to lose some of the stuff that is not going to make a difference in her big picture. In terms of supervision, she has a very supportive champion in her former tutor who has volunteered that she can go to his room in his frees (his role is mainly pastoral so he has quite a few) and as others have said, she can use the library to do homework. The whole point is to keep up with the essential academics, as well as her practice. And this is only temporary, to see us through this particularly intense period of panto in addition to JD. One or the other is not a problem (we've done it before with no concessions). It's having both that is unusual.

But you are expecting them to do things differently and it's concerning you can't see this

• you want her to be able to have independent study instead of some lesson time. That requires supervising.

• a form tutor with pastoral responsibility needs to be able to be directed to use their pastoral time to do pastoral things and respond to issues as they arise, without having to say "I can't respond to X Y Z or have that meeting because I'm doing 1-1 supervision". Whilst a nice offer, his job isn't to supervise on 1-1 basis.

• wanting flexibility on homework means you are expecting the staff to either:

A) adjust their marking around when you and your DC decide she can manage to do the homework B) Sequence their lessons differently because they need students to have completed certain tasks by certain days to fit their order of teaching C) if not B, then provide different material in class either starters or main tasks for the lessons your child doesn't do the work for because she has her own deadline

What she is doing, though great, doesn't warrant essentially bespoke arrangements around whatever shows she does. We have a good number of students who do music/drama/sport to a high level for a state comprehensive, and we send lots of students to drama college and conservatoire every year. They have a normal timetable like every other student, unless there is a formal dual registration or educated off site situation with another body overseeing part of their education.

Just to point out floating instrument lessons are 20 minutes long, not 40. You might need to rethink what you are asking for to come across as being reasonable.

Have you considered Interhigh? It's about £330 per month, but it's a fully online school and children with commitments (they have actresses, golfers, etc.,) can rerun any missed lessons in their own time to keep up, as all lessons are recorded.

I have a national level sports kid and moved them to private school so they can fit everyhing in. But academics are really important and you cannot in all honesty say shes 8s and 9s across the board if she's just started in year 8! She hasn't even begun studying for gcses yet!

Meant to say i think what you are asking for sounds unreasonable. A floating 40 minute free? For what?

Not to piss on your chips but most of dd2s dance class are in the local panto this year and don't get any concessions!

Y8 do not normally have free periods. Tbh I doubt panto really needs much extra practice outside regular group rehearsals or voice/dance lessons. It sounds like you are asking for a lot of rearrangements for such small gain. Could she use practice rooms during break/lunch/ after school, will the drama/music staff support her?

As the mother of two performing children (one in the West End, the other works more in film and TV) plus working with children in the industry, I think you are going about things the wrong way.

At your meeting explain the constraints your daughter is facing and ask if and how they can support her. You are coming across as being very specific in what you want and some of it fits your criteria as opposed to what the school may be able to deliver. For example, saying she doesn’t need supervision if she is missing lessons - well actually she does.

I have always had excellent two way communication with our school and we have a great supportive relationship with them. For the WE work DD was at school in the morning then rehearsals in the afternoon. Homework was also completed. When the other is on set she has a tutor. Education absolutely has to come first and this is reiterated by the production teams. I wouldn’t let my children sacrifice their learning for this. Sure it’s their hopes and dreams but it’s my job as a parent to ensure they have the academic background they will need to do any job, not just in performing. The number of children working in the industry who continue into and are successful in adulthood is tiny. You just can’t risk it.

We have also never done panto because it’s too intensive, often badly organised (even at the big theatres) and is far too intrusive into school and family life. I guess you are finding this out now.

The music by itself should be more than manageable outside normal school life without any dispensation.

I guess what I am saying is your daughter has taken on too much. It shouldn’t be down to the school to have to sort it out.

But you are where you are. Work on building a relationship with the school where they are 100% on board and supportive and you can get through this temporary blip. You then put your foot down and say no more panto in future years.

I have a DC who sounds similar being both in the music scene plus dance and musical theatre. She went to the local comprehensive who did allow her absenses for professional west end work which was weekly missing 2 afternoons for a year and the rehearsal periods at the start of every contract ( every afternoon for 8 weeks) I think they accommodated this as we made every effort to keep up with school work and homework was done on trains and backstage etc. Some productions DC had a tutor who liased with school for work but we generally found DC had to be proactive and self learn. These skills really helped for A level and Uni (music) I am not saying don't ask for late starts, missing PE etc however if she is serious about further work a track record of juggling it all and achieving well will mean she is more likely to get the performance licence from local authority/school.

To add my DS has a 20 minute (not 40) instrument lesson. It's not a free period from his other subjectshirt. He excuses himself from his lesson, returns to tne same lesson and is expected to find out what he has missed and work on this at home. This is a condition of his instrument lesson. We don't ask for any special treat mentioned for this or his sporting talent. I know lots of high school kids taking part in panto season none of them expect the school to make allowances for this.

Ok I get it. I'm a shit parent. My child is shit, she is going to flunk her life and never amount to anything. On with your day people 🙄

Not a shot patent. But expecting school to allow your child to miss parts of tne curriculum in year 8 is unreasonable and not in your child's interests. Also thinking that instrument lessons in school is a free period is complete nonsense.

I never for one second suggested it was or should be. I am suggesting she gets a rostered 'free' in lieu of the music lessons she DOESN'T have in school to catch up with homework and class work she will miss due to matinee shows and make up some practice time. For half a term.

Jeez.

Touchy!

Perfomance is hard as a career. You have to be beyond resilient. Your dd will have to learn how to fit everything in and you'd do well to keep your feet on the ground.

We're quite fine. Feet firmly on the floor.

Thanks to those who have made a positive contribution- will be taking those ideas into an open and constructive dialogue with the head when we meet next week with the aim of getting whatever support we can for DD. Because that's what it's all about, right!

Checking out now.

🥴

Sorry but a school is not going to allow free periods and missing subjects like PE and RE completely in year 8. You made a choice for your child to take part in a panto, she will already miss school for some performances so in all honestly I already think school are being more than accommodating already.

OP, rather than ask to drop PE/RS or SRE (all of which is compulsory), think about a subject that she might drop - one that she's never ever going to do at GCSE level. We managed to drop DT and Art in Y9, which made a huge difference - it was a very difficult year and DD had some health problems. Now in Y10, she's got a full course load, and is handling it very well.

It's worth bearing in mind that in Y8 they are still, in a way, building up their stamina (physical, mental and emotional), and as they progress they will be able to handle their time better.