SW London girls independent/grammars thread 2020

[autumnnightsaredrawingin]

Last year, there were two amazing threads which were super helpful about exactly this, so I wanted to start a thread for girls due to start September 2020. If anyone from last year wants to contribute please do!

We have narrowed our choices down to 5, sadly not in the right postcode for Tiffin, and decided not to do the Sutton grammars.

So, she will be doing PHS, WHS, LEH, SHS and Woldingham. Also registered for Emanuel but we may pull that one.

Hello. I'm not going to be able to read all 12 pages of this but we are looking at PHS, SHS, FHSS and Lady Margerets for SIXTH Form to start 2021. We are going to have to move as live on the IW currently. My DD school now goes straight from Foundation thru A levels and is non selective so we've never had to apply and do exams as such so I'm finding this all very new.
I realise the majority on here are applying for Y7. But it might inform some peoples choices seeing as we have gone to several sixth form open days.
We were quite disappointed in WHS, partially not their fault as the building work will mean alot of sixth form facilities will move there. But the open day was pretty bad - all years together and the girl showing us and another family (so seven A level subjects between us) only did ONE of those seven. The following week we did PHS and what a contrast! Just sixth form at that time, they matched us up with a girl doing two out of our three choices, and she found two girls who did the third subject to chat to us.
Lady Margerets (haven't seen that mentioned much but is competitive with others academically and geographically) was obviously a different kettle of fish being state, but again so crowded (even though just sixth form open day) and we couldn't get near any of the subject teachers, but will apply to anyway as no exam, no interview and darn it it's free!
I did start a thread last year on sixth form but not much other than lists of schools to consider (I want the inside scoop not a list). If any have girls already in any of the schools mentioned I'd appreciate any advice, especially as we would be moving from outside of London (but used to live in Wimbledon/putney/wandsworth and Fulham so know them well). Considerong SHS as a safety - is that a correct assumption?

@RevolutionofOurTime be careful saying PHS is a back up school for most girls. Waiting list in the last years has not moved - it was excruciating last year - whereas it moves a lot for WHS.

@autumnnightsaredrawingin you have chosen a lot of top notch schools there. Your back up would indeed seem SHS and you have a place at Woldingham. The others you mention are fierce.

@glittercats I can vouch for the fact that last year PHS didn’t go into their waitlist by some way. WHS did but PHS no. It was stubborn. Partly down to the fact they are taking fewer girls at the moment because of building works

Have been following this thread for a few days, thank you ladies for all the insights. We just started and only doing a few schools. LU yesterday - and I agree, my DD found the Maths super hard and her friend who was there and sat SPGS said it was harder than that. She is convinced she bombed it, but who knows! Today PHS and Consortium Friday...what a process! Good luck to all little ones 🤞🏼

@Pipandmum - my DD is moving for 6th from from one of the schools you mention. Probably not worth derailing this thread so maybe start a new one.

You don't say what subjects your DD is interested in or where she sits academically. Those have been the reasons for us moving - DD is very STEM focussed.

Might be worth a look at KGS.

@Expo, My point wasn’t about the waiting lists, but that all these schools need to offer far more places than they have, in order to fill their available spots. So if they have 100 places, they need to offer close to 400 I guess. I was surprised that there weren’t more candidates at some schools. I reckon there were around 340 at LEH (17 groups and according to 2 of the girls, 20 girls per group). The odds are not that bad.

PHS let’s in 60 and they didn’t go to waitlist this year. I doubt they would risk offering 400 places. KGS did exploding offers 2 years ago which freaked me out but they stopped that last year thank goodness.

I think last year WHS made 72 offers for 60 places last year because didn’t want to risk a bulge year due to building works and then went to waiting list.

Good luck for SHS and PHS today everyone.

Dd found LU maths v hard yesterday, as hard or harder than SPGS. But I can see they need to differentiate between the exceptional, very bright, bright and average. She really enjoyed LEH - but so did everyone else so not putting too much weight on that. PHS this morning and then consortium on Friday. What a marathon! She is coping admirably, me less so

Re Latymer Upper. My eldest sat it . Found maths very challenging and got offered. Everyone says that each year about their 11+, so please don’t worry!

The LU maths is notorious for being hard and last year, DD and her five friends who pretty much did the same schools together, all said it was more challenging than the SPGS paper. Apparently they like pupils who can think on their feet.

I think when it comes to schools calculating how many places to offer, they can be quite canny. They often ask students in the interview what other schools they are applying to, which school they would choose and why. If there is a child who is a brilliant musician, for instance, somewhere like PHS might offer them an academic scholarship as well as the music one to attract them (I have seen this happen). This happens in the Consortium schools too - eg FHSS offering scholarships to girls who they know would also have made the grade in the paper for G&L.
Revolution - I don’t think schools need to offer four times the amount of places to fill the ones they have. PHS has 60-odd places, so they might offer 80 /90 with a waiting list, I would guess? They also offer scholarships to pupils coming up from their prep to stop them leaving for St Paul’s etc.

I guess at the end of the day, no one, unless you happen to work in admissions of these schools, (!) knows exactly the formula they use for offering places, how many extra they offer, etc. Some of the points made here though are valid, eg offering scholarships to girls who they really want if they know they’ve applied for ‘better’ (and I use that quote very loosely) schools.

All we can really all do is wait and see and hope our daughters get in somewhere and that they will be happy. Dropped mine of at Surbiton this morning. Very helpful and friendly staff which I have to say has been my experience with Surbiton right from the start which makes me like it even more. Everything crossed. Good luck to all doing PHS and SHS today.

@Expo I know re tough schools. I always knew we were taking a risk with doing PHS, WHS and LEH, and now especially because she is not through to stage 2 of Wimbledon. All I can do is hope Surbiton comes off for her, and as a slightly further away hope (!) hope that she has managed to do enough for an LEH interview and/or a PHS interview.

I would also add to anyone reading this. My daughter is at an excellent state school. She has always been in the top few children in both maths and English. But I think what I totally failed to realise is that in the SW London bubble, bright girls are 10 a penny. She may be bright, sparky and keen to learn but so are so many. I think what I’m trying to say is none of these exams are totally plain sailing however bright your child.

Good luck everyone, it will all be over soon.

@autumnnightsaredrawingin I agree with you. I underestimated the amount of prepping some kids get. I did a bit of maths with both mine and left them to it with the rest. We got through (one a sports scholar at KGS and other at PHS) but can’t help feeling we were lucky.

I remember seeing some figures in a governors' report for City Boys re. offers vs no of places. I think they were offering something like 3 for every one place. This is a very sought-after school and there are far fewer boys' schools so I think people are underestimating how many offers they make. Highgate, I remember, said something about offering 2 or 3 per place.

I suspect that only St Paul's Girls can offer anything like the number of actual places. Even the prestigious boys' schools (Westminster, St P, Kings etc) will know that the best candidates will have offers from them all.

In other words, the odds are much better than it can seem when you're dropping off your child amid swarms of applicants.

DD got a waitlist place from WHS a couple of of years ago on the state school offers day. I think they are more affected by the grammar schools than eg PHS as there are more vaguely locally. They therefore won't know whether some of their junior girls will be leaving until that day as well as other girls who will want Tiffin etc. In DDs year they ended up with exactly the number they wanted, spread evenly over 4 classes so I guess their strategy worked.
Even SPGS will have to over offer as not everyone will accept the place despite it being seen as the holy grail.
There will also be late movements as families in London do tend to move abroad/ away a lot!
Good luck all- it does all work out!

I had no idea until last summer that there are certain girls prep schools that almost seem to be “feeders” for SPGS - eg. one school got 12 into SPGS out of a class of 20 odd. The others were told to “only” apply to the likes of G&L or LU! I’ve met a couple of girls (friends of DD) whose mums have told me that their daughters’ confidence had been really been knocked by this kind of pressure, even though they’re bright girls! This is absolutely crazy when you think that G&L gets the same GCSE results, if not better, than the most sought-after boys schools ie SPS or KCS and I know for a fact that the students who scored highest in maths IGCSE (in the UK) and English (in the world)! at GCSE last summer are pupils at LU. There is nowhere else in the UK that children are put under this much pressure and have to sit so many schools in a matter of weeks, but the thing to remember is that, by national standards, these are all fantastic schools and our DC are super privileged to have the opportunity to have a shot at any of them. They only need one offer and tbh, in over ten years of all this, I’ve only ever known one child who got no offers (and that was a boy whose parents had just arrived in the UK).

I actually think that one of the benefits of being at a state primary is the lack of guidance from the head! Avoids the added stress of being told where you can and can't apply!

I haven’t asked a daft question for a while so here goes...

Has anyone ever established at an open day why the GDST schools don’t offer a consortium type exam in SW London? They all emphasise the need to reduce stress on the girls but in fact increase it by risking clashes between exams.

Where I live it would be perfectly feasible for a girl to apply to S&CHS, PHS, WHS and SHS.. some being more of a stretch than others. It would seem kinder (and more efficient) to sit a single exam?

I’m guessing there must be a simple reason but I’m missing it!

@stircrazyschoolmum interesting question. And not one I know the answer to. I would have thought it’s maybe because because they all have quite different ways of testing? Also, Surbiton isn’t a GDST school, although many think it is. I also wonder if SCHS knows it’s regarded as well below WHS and PHS and wouldn’t want to be part of a group? No idea. A good question to ask though. Consortium papers also have their drawbacks. If a girl has a ‘bad day’ and has only applied to consortium schools that’s a nightmare...

I don’t know Stir, but maybe it’s because WHS and PHS pitch themselves on a par academically, so if there was one exam, they would both be competing over the same girls? Even though this is probably what essentially happens anyway, but all least they can all believe they have their own special selection criteria, so they’re not in such direct competition maybe?

Whilst they are under the GDST umbrella they do see themselves as very separate entities and make their own decisions about their entry process and the type of girls they want to attract. They are also quite competitive with each other, comparing GCSE results etc!

What is SCHS? I've got most of the other abbreviations, but not that one!

(Currently waiting for pick up at SHS .... they are running late as the fire alarm went off! Poor things)

SCHS is Streatham and Clapham High School.
I thought Stir was meaning Sutton High for SHS rather than Surbiton.
I wouldn't have like DD to do a GDST consortium- as someone said, what happens if they have a bad day?! Quite good that they all have different types of exams..

How did surbiton girls get on today? Verdict here was maths ok but long, English tricky (standard in our experience!). She really liked filling out the personal questionnaire though the recent news article she referred to when asked happened to be from last winter 🤣 (in fairness she did read about it recently it was in one of those articles summarising 2019!).

A 2 day break for us then Emanuel. I'm not sure I remember life pre-11+!!