St Paul's Girls - Distance from home

[Squakle]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who currently has DDs at SPGS or who has applied recently ...

We went to the open day today, absolutely loved it. However, it would be a long journey from home, around 70-75 minutes.

Does anyone know:
a) How strictly they apply the 50 minute rule? Would we even be allowed to apply?

b) What it a long commute actually like, for anyone whose dd does it? How late are they typically getting home? Is there time for homework? How often do they actually have late nights? Do you feel isolated from the other parents? Do they have to travel a lot to fit in with any social life/friends? Basically, is it worth the journey?

To answer questions in advance:
No, there is zero chance of us being able to move closer.
Yes, we have also looked at closer schools and will apply, it's just that SPGS is our favourite.

Thanks for any advice.

I know a girl who commuted there for 6th form and her commute was 60-70mins.
She didn’t complain.

When I was in school, I had my heart set on a school that was about 70mins away and commuted for several years. I was super happy to be there. However, with hindsight, it did mean I missed out on some co-curricular opportunities. I was often on the back foot with my homework (but did manage to do a bit on the way). It also meant getting up at silly o’clock + leaving extra early in case of delays. Or getting in trouble for being late on quite a few occasions.

Thanks JoJo, that's a great help to get some perspective.

I travelled for just over an hour to secondary and it was fine, but it was a state secondary and there wasn't a lot of cocurricular stuff going on so I nearly always came straight home and I was back by 4.45.

I hope someone will be able to shed some light on the timings at the school specifically but I'd expect the day to be much longer than a state school, pretty much everyone participating in a range of co-curriculars and possibly things going on at weekends too. If they have a 50-min commute policy, I can see how they'd do it for pupils to be able to benefit from and contribute to school life and still have time to study to get those A*s.

I have personal experience of exactly this. Harder to see friends as they won't live near you, harder to take part in things like weekend sports fixtures which maybe required meeting at school at certain time then coach to fixture in Elstree, presumably harder to be in school play etc BUT educationally off the charts which in my opinion made it all worthwhile. I'd say go for it if it's her top choice. Good luck!

Glad you had a good day today! Day is 08:30 - 4pm. The lunch hour is long with a double slot for clubs (enabling the fantastic lunch to be eaten as well as going along to one of many clubs) although there are a handful afterschool too. I think your daughter’s type of commute might make a difference - a walk and a bus and a train and another change could be gruelling in a way that a simple but longish journey isn’t.
The one place I’d counsel caution is with a super sporty girl - lots of the sports clubs and trainings are at 07:30 which is challenging if you add over an hour commute before that. The girls come from all over London and a bit beyond so it is the norm to have friends in further flung places. It is a different experience from the good local indie but my daughter loves the school so much and it’s a great environment for her. Her commute is quite long but by bus which is quite comfortable and easy. She certainly doesn’t regret her choice.

I have a dd at SPGS, in the lower years, so what I’m saying only applies to those. I think you just have to ask the school whether they would accept an application from your address.

I also think that pepperup is right about the type of commute - an hour on one train where you have a seat and can do your homework is different from multiple changes and having to stand all the way. Her point about sport is also spot on. Music tends to be later nights (staying at school for a concert) so that’s easier as long as one parent can go to the concert, as that way you can take her home. I do also know some girls have SAHPs who are able to drive them in some days, especially if they have to be there early, and that obviously makes it easier (though that approach is impossible if you both work).

The school does group them by location, which helps, so although it may be that your dd’s closest friend doesn’t live locally, she will know girls who live fairly close to you. And I personally think that distance is less of an issue at secondary age, where you would expect them to use public transport to see their friends, it’s more about whether there is a direct bus or train route.

In terms of other parents, there are lots of opportunities to meet them (usually at the school eg pastoral talks, concerts, matches) so I think that wouldn’t be an issue as long as you have the time and are prepared to do the travelling yourself.

I know a child who has a drive / train / tube / walk commute which has to be at least 90 minutes in a good day. She does an early sport as well. Brutal regime that the parents are putting her through I think, despite excellent schools close to home

a) don't know
b) I'd think very hard about this, and only go for it if there were no acceptable alternative. It's a length of commute that would make me groan a bit if I had to do it for work (and I wouldn't be carrying a full school bag, a games kit and maybe a bassoon). If the journey involved awkward changes as well as a long time, it would be heartsink. Not something I would want inflicted on my DC

Remember also that just loafing with friends fr school can be a feature of teen social life. Those with long journeys may be cut off from that, as well as some extracurricular stuff

Sorry I don't live in London and I realise it's a bit different, so feel free to ignore but just to summarise:
Lugging around sports kit, folders etc. 2 1/2 hours a day commuting on top of homework, clubs and lessons. What if they want to do something with a big commitment eg a drama production, when do they happen. Leaving home at 7am and getting home at 630? Delays on bad transport days, living far from friends.
I guess it does depend on the type of transport but I wouldn't choose this kind of life for my teen, if I was set on that school I'd move.

Just to add, the point about sports kit and folders isn’t so much of an issue. The girls each have a sports locker and books locker where they can keep stuff to avoid having to carry it back and forth - my dd usually carries an A4 sized backpack and that’s it.

A relative of mine had a similar commute to secondary school. It wasn't a problem in spring and summer but was gruelling in the winter. Dark mornings and nights and public transport delays/cancellations at the first sign of snow made it a horrible experience for a few months every year.

What type of commute is it? Is it directly on the tube to St Paul’s or does it involve changes?

It's one tube all the way, with a 15 min walk/ 5 min bus at either end.

Based on my commuting experience, she's likely to have to stand for the first 4-8 stops then definitely get a seat by stop 8 (it's a major interchange station, the tube empties there).

She's moderately sporty, but her main sport is a fairly niche, individual sport. So not likely to be on first or second teams for lacrosse, netball etc. Not musical at all. Quite likes drama.

I think what we might do is chance an application, knowing that it might be turned down before exam on grounds of distance.

Then if we actually got an offer, we'd have to see where else she got offers from. I'd most likely take SPGS if the only alternative was the local comp (no ideological problems with state schools, it's just not a great school in general and in particular not a good fit for my dd). If we got offered one of the other schools we quite liked as well then it would be a tougher call.

Personally I wouldn't if you have a good closer option. Time for resting and socializing is very important. Makes a big difference to mental health.

Seems really far away to travel each way in top of the longer school day.

Where do you live? There must be other closer suitable schools.

There are closer options. They're all a bit of a compromise in one way or another, whereas SPGS ticks all the boxes:

One is mixed and I would strongly prefer all girls.

One is great with cocurricular but much much poorer academically (30% 7-9 at GCSE). I don't think dd's the sort that would do well anywhere, she needs the right environment.

One is ok academically but seems to have issues around bullying not being taken seriously/ properly addressed.

One is academically good but very heavily science focused, not a lot of room for humanities.

One has a very poor cocurricular offering but has ok results.

Etc.

Our second choice (after SPGS) would be City of London Girls. That would be an easier commute and was very impressive in lots of ways. They're both head and shoulders above everywhere else we could get to.

Perhaps let your dd make the journey on her own and see how she finds it?

I had a long commute to my school and I found it very tiring and socially isolating. I did do well academically but my school years were not happy ones and I wouldn't choose a long commute for my own child.

Also I went to an all girls school until the age of 16 which I didn't like and really hasn't helped me to relate to men as an adult.

I did a similar commute as a child. I put up with it because I had to. i would much rather not have had it.

The choice that you/DD need to make is not "is this the school I prefer" but "would I rather go to this school and spend an hour extra on the tube every day, day in day out with no let up, for at least the next 5 years, over perfectly good alternative and an hour extra to do what I want."

Thanks, everyone for the input so far, read with interest.

RedSky, It's more 'do we like this school and the 75 minute commute more than this other school which would be 35 minutes closer?' But yes, I take your point.

The closest school that we'd actually be happy to accept is a 45 minute journey each way - the local grammar: an easy drive outside of rush hour (4 miles, ~20 mins) but two buses and a walk by public transport. So what we're weighing up is whether the extra 35 minutes each way is worth the phenomenal difference in quality or not.

There are only two secondaries closer that she'd be likely to get a place at: one state and one independent. We have done open days but neither impressed me much.

There was a lovely and v helpful poster called @pradaqueen whose DD was in a similar position and went to CLSG in the end. I wonder if she would see this and give you some advice. Not sure if you are from out east but I vaguely recall while there is a huge variety in home addresses they tend to be on the west side of the city. It might be worth bearing in mind. Plenty of girls do travel to SPGS as it does have quite a different feel to it but do agree it’s not everything. That said my DD has no regrets and determined to stay for sixth form.

35 minutes each way = 70 minutes a day = 350 minutes (nearly 6 hours) a week.

And 45 minutes is still a pretty lengthy commute!

I have a DD in the lower years at SPGS. She has a 45 minute commute (can be longer if there are delays which does happen) and finds it perfectly manageable, though it is a v long day and she was super tired at first. Another 15 minutes would not be a deal breaker for me.

I know of people who live further out (even someone who lives in Leatherhead and comes in a car every day). I commuted from Twickenham to Hammersmith for 7 years as a child (about an hour) and it was fine.

DD doesn't take lots of sports kit back and forth (because of the sports locker), she doesn't have to cart her musical instrument in unless she wants to (because there are lots to borrow, variable quality) and she rarely brings textbooks home because she tends to take pictures of any pages she might need with her phone. So no heavy bags are necessary most of the time.

Hope some of that info is a bit helpful.

@squakle "One is great with cocurricular but much much poorer academically
(30% 7-9 at GCSE)"

Look at the value added, not the baseline results and see if your child would do better than expected at whichever school.

They will sit a test in various years (ALIS/MIDYIS/YELLIS) which predicts their expected grades. Good schools will be able to add value to that prediction. Eg if your child enters Y7 and is predicted a 6 at GCSE, and that school adds value if say 1.5.. your child could expect to achieve an high 7/low 8. (Just picking figures for illustration)

Also look at HOW that school got top grades... Tutoring? The expense of co-curricular... Etc.

School is more than the headline results...