Advice needed - maths sets

[Marypoppins19]

Son is in Year 7. Passed sats with 105 in maths. The year 7 is made up of 6 classes in an A and B split. In his half of the year there are three forms and so they have decided to split them for maths into Top Middle Bottom in groups of 30.
This has meant that he is now in the bottom 30.
Previously before the split last week, he was enjoying the challenge, pace and pitch. He now says it’s very slow, lots of non English speakers and some kids who really struggle. I appreciate their must be a wide range within each class of 30 but there is no extra support in the class.
Obviously I want to help him move on quickly but I’m worried about how best to do this without putting him under massive pressure. One tutoring session of an hour a week has already started. What would you add in as well??
He wants to do well but he also needs and wants downtime.

TriDreigiau thank you. Around 80% got maths grade 4 or higher this year and that’s pretty consistent.

88% got 4 or higher last year - but I think that was the best year yet and an exceptional year group

Those results suggest a high performing comp (so not really "comprehensive"). So it's very likely that a child with slightly above average SATS score (even with tutoring) and poor CATS would end up in the bottom third of the year.

I think this is the side of sets that people always ignore when they say how much they like them. It's actually now sounding highly probable that the OP's DC may never move above this set unless they set across the year group when he gets further up the school (might be worth checking, OP) and yes, I can see how he would get demoralised very quickly. The other question to be asking is how they ensure that the range of abilities is catered for in the top set (with 80% + getting Level 4 or above, there are children even in the bottom third doing pretty well).

80% getting a 4 or higher is above national average so the school probably has a higher achieving intake at SATS level. This would explain 105 being in set 3.

Give it time OP, remember school is a marathon and not a sprint. The tutor will do no harm as long as your ds sees it as "fun" and not a "chore because I'm thick".

You’ve hit my fear on the head - being stuck there and then potentially slipping further backwards

He’s so not thick! He’s super
Lazy, messy but super
Just wish he believed it and being stuck in the bottom isn’t going to help that

Oh gosh I wasn't suggesting he was.... I just didn't want him to think he was.

I'd talk to him about how the children in his school are obviously above the national average and that means in most schools he would be in set 2. Also try and explain that a smaller school means that he could be 121st in the year and still end up in set 3.

Hopefully with hard work and decent class work he will get into set 2. Do they stay in parallel sets all the way through? Ours go 1-8/9 from year 9 so lots of students move "up".

RedskyLastNight
Very valid points.
If people (not OP here talking generally) choose to send their children to schools that have a more able intake and higher than average outcomes, it shouldn't be surprising that the sets reflect this.

As I said, we could easily have 105 in a middle ability class. I've had students on 95 entry in a bottom set before.

The issue with sets (anecdotally) is that parents love them when they think their child will be in a top set, but suddenly get twitchy about them when their child isn't in the set they like. It's why we get millions of requests to move up, but if the same child who has been moved up isn't managing and needs moving down because they are performing below the top of the next set down, the same parent will kick off and defend their child's right to be in the higher set.

Just another perspective, but both my dcs (different schools) found year 7 maths very slow paced. Both teachers said it is a consolidating year, as they make sure that the pupils are at the same point, with no gaps before they move on.

DS1 was very frustrated, DS2 was bored, but it got better in year 8.

LolaSmiles

RedskyLastNight

When the school say that all sets follow the same pathway, what do they mean?

If he's lazy then that's the thing to change more than anything else. If you can sort that out , then everything else will most likely sort its self out.

Most likely it means there's the same KS3 curriculum but they'll work through it at a different pace. There will be some extension material at the top end that goes beyond the curriculum, but they don't have the bottom sets doing reduced curriculum coverage (e.g. only teaching foundation topics). It should mean there is movement between groups.

OP, our school works as Lola describes. In KS3 all sets are doing the same 'topic' at the same time, but higher sets may move onto more advanced stuff on that topic if they get through the basic stuff quickly.

He needs to:
a) ask for extension work if he finishes stuff early - which should always be available - if it isn't push for it.
b) make sure he revises for tests

At our school there was quite a lot of room for movement in maths sets in y7 as some schools prep for SATs much more than others so some have over-high SATs and some over-low.

LolaSmiles

RedskyLastNight

Sorry final question! Do all schools teach the ks3 curriculum in the same order?

Our school teaches different sets different content. They'll broadly be doing the same topic at the same time but set 4 does basics while set 1 will do challenging stuff. Eg set 4 multiply single and double digit numbers whilst set 1 get on to decimals.

Do all schools teach the ks3 curriculum in the same order?
Short answer is no.

I wouldn't say I know enough about maths curriculum choices to be sure, but I would imagine so. The main reason for variation in my subject (English) is due to not having whole cohorts of texts so rotation is sometimes done.

In maths, with the exception of a nurture group class (who I would expect to have a different format due to very weak literacy/numeracy), I'd expect the topics to be the same for the term but with some flexibility in how much time is allocated to each one (eg a lower set may not need as long on shape topics, but may need an extra week to get algebra or circle theories)

Sorry, I think I misread your question there. I thought you were asking about classes within a school teaching KS3 in the same order.

School to school there will be variation of topic orders as schools will make their own curriculum choices.

Different schools will have totally different schemes of work. One school might start with number, another with data, another with shape etc. No two schools will be teaching in the same order unless they are part of a MAT with the same scheme of work.

So in order that he can best prepare for the tests, I will need to ask what is the focus of the units.

I assume cats are yearly and the termly tests are a different format? He struggled with how ‘different’ they looked - and the speed

My DC's school operates the same way as Teen describes in KS3. All the sets work on the same topics at the same time and they all have the same test at the end of each unit (so they have to cover the same material). It'll be these tests that determines (along with teacher observation) whether they are in the correct set.

CATs may well never be done again.

My DC only took CATS at the start of Year 7; I don't think they are a yearly thing.

Does your DC's school use myMaths or any of the similar online resources? That would be good to supplement whatever he is doing at school (particularly if there is no homework).

Something called CompleteMaths - but no log in as yet. Apparently they also get a tracker?

Sounds a lot like my Ds, OP, who is now in y9. He was in set 3/6 (they are set across the year group) and then moved down to set 4 in December. DH worked really hard with him and in end of y7 he did really well, moved up to set 3. End of y8 he got more than 80 per cent which was top of the set but not enough to move up. He's still set 3 but he's doing ok. He's set 4 for English. He lacks confidence massively too. I'm dreading when his little brother comes up next year and is set 1. Currently Ds is feeling ok where he is...

Not sure what to advise except just keep up the enthusiasm with Maths and hopefully if he does well in tests. I'd definitely tutor. I'm quite against it usually but I think a good tutor will boost his confidence, sense of achievement in doing harder stuff and keep him at the very top of set 3 so he has a chance to move back into set 2.

CATS can either be done yearly, or just in y7. Often they are done in y7 because they give a better indicator of overall understanding etc than SATs. A child doing well in a test they've been drilled in the question format for and hothoused for doesn't automatically translate to academic aptitude in a subject (eg. I've had students come in with 113 on KS2 English, but not be able to make inferences and can't use half the expected standard punctuation independently).

Redsky's school works like mine.

I think you've got to be less hung up on tests and more focused on developing his mathematical ability. Even the focus on the test has an undertone of 'so he can be in the class with the number where I think he should be'.

Some tutors are good at developing mathematical thinking and reasoning in a holistic sense, others will work through different topics. You can ask for the order of topics, but be prepared that a tutor and the school may have different approaches.

Like redsky, we use a mixture of classwork, teacher observations and assessment when it comes to choosing sets so if we have 1 place to move up and two students who could probably manage the move, the one who isn't lazy would get the move as experience says they're probably better equipped and resilient enough to manage the move.