In Defence of Private Schools

[Wayland1]

What do you think of Labour's private school plans?

Yesterday, Labour delegates voted for plans that would abolish private schools, with plans to remove charitable status and redistribute their endowments, investments and properties to the state sector. In addition, a new social justice commission would be tasked with integrating private schools into the state system.

This amounts to unlawful seizure of private property. Government, in a law-governed society, cannot simply seize private property in peacetime.

Also, you do not improve education by destroying what are some of the UK's best educational institutions. I agree that our education system isn't perfect, and that we may get frustrated at, for example, the excessive fees and running costs of most private schools nowadays. But in my opinion, the way to improve the situation is to have more choice and competition, not less.

What do you think?

I think it would swing my vote away from labour. I am pro choice.

In the last 10 years, only 17 out of 400,000 teachers in state schools were dismissed due to incompetence.
During my three years in one school, four teachers were asked to leave

From the first article. So if only 17 teachers in 17 years have been dismissed due to incompetence it seems extraordinary that 4 in three years were at the school he was working at

This is obviously a case of lies, damned lies and statistics.

“Asked to leave” is different to “being dismissed”.

Many many people choose state schools NOT just for financial reasons but because they feel that their children will have a more well-rounded education by spending time with a more diverse cross-section of society and (usually) different cultures. Education and learning is clearly not confined to narrowly-defined academic subjects, but (for example) how to learn from peers, particularly those from a range of backgrounds, fully participating in civic society on a more equal footing and not buying into the fundamental dishonesty of public schools' charitable status. Public schools do not offer this. I've a lot of experience of different public and state schools and of children/'graduates' from both, and it is very clear that state schools (not just very high performing ones) offer much that public schools can't replicate. The dishonesty that public schools “provides benefit to the public” as defined under the Charities Act is surely a very poor reflection of those schools' values.

What’s the difference between private and state? A figure deliberately given to suggest that state schools can’t or don’t get rid of incompetent teachers (they very much do) and no corresponding figure for private schools?

I misread the article, I thought the shitty behaviour was in a state, not a private school.

But rest assured, incompetent teachers are got rid of from state schools all the time. They’re asked to leave too, just like the ones in private schools. Or managed out through competency proceedings. Or are told that they will fail their NQT year if they don’t quit.

The figure of 17 teachers is not an accurate depiction of the situation.

At no time did I say that there wasn’t bullying the private school system. All of my dcs attend state schools so I am not one to fly the flag for private schools.
I just pointed out that my sister put her son in a private school that suited his needs. The classes are small ( maximum ten pupils) and he is thriving. It’s as simple as that

I’ve been involved in the “departure” of several teachers in my time. We only got close to the end of the incompetency procedure once.

In the state system where there is no incentive to improve performance
Jeez, it’s like you know fuck-all about state education. No incentive to improve performance? Ofsted, league tables, Progress 8, pupil funding tied to bums on seats.

Parents are less likely to complain
Have you never been on MN before?

You do realise in that Huffpost article about the teachers being asked to leave that they weren’t dismissed either? So all it says is that state schools don’t dismiss incompetent teachers, but neither do private schools. Both get rid by other means.

“No incentive to improve performance”

No, because state school teachers just do it for the shits and giggles- they don’t give a flying flamingo for the kids in their care...

Aren’t the state school ones too stupid and uneducated to give a flying flamingo

Tworedshoes
'State schools also attract a bunch of people who 'don't know what to do with their lives, so they became a teacher'. Hands up if you know at least one person in your circle of friends who became a teacher because they had fuck all else to do and they thought 'lots of holidays would be nice'.

Sorry but teaching in the state system still attracts a load of uncertain, mixed up, often not particularly bright people who aren't cut out to be teachers. No wonder so many, up to 50% fall out of teaching within one year.'

Do you mean to be so obnoxious and ignorant? You do your advocacy of private school education a great disservice by your comments.

Just wondering what percentage of parents who choose private schools for their kids are only doing it because the state education is lacking one way or another. And for how many parents it would always be the only choice regardless of the quality of the state provision.

Obligations - really!? It tends to be those who cant hack it in the state sector that go private in my experience! I have lots of teacher friends in both!

SIL attended a state school on an estate. Has very negative memories of bullying and disruption.
Wanted a Garden House/ Bute experience for his children. The development of a love of learning.
Academics was not the priority.
Both parents are university educated.

The classes are small ( maximum ten pupils) and he is thriving. It’s as simple as that

See 10 in a class is a massive red flag for me and a real negative. How can a school be sustainable on that income? I would be very worried about the school being a going concern. 10 is also far too tiny socially especially if it’s a mixed school. It lays itself open to serious issues amongst the children as there’s no place to escape especially in the older years when they’re fed up with each other. Optimum class size in a prep school IMO is 18-22. Closer to the 22 if co-ed. I’ve had 2 go through the prep system and one through state primary and trust me, the same friendship issues, not such nice behaviour and WhatsApp meanness happens in both sectors to the same scale. You can’t hide from it by paying.

“SIL attended a state school on an estate”
Sandringham? Balmoral?

I was quoting from the other poster re. people becoming state school teachers because they can't decide what they want to do in life etc

Sorry Bertrand, maybe you thought I was being sarcastic. SIL grew up in inner city Manchester.

Getting rid of private schools would only ensure the same crap choices for everyone irrespective of how hard you work or how much you value education. Great! Same crap they troll out when talking about grammars creating inequality... Noone forcing you to use them if you don't like them but getting rid of something because it is excellent is weird.

“Getting rid of private schools would only ensure the same crap choices for everyone irrespective of how hard you work or how much you value education. Great! Same crap they troll out when talking about grammars creating inequality.”

1. Describing the schools 93% of the population use as “crap” is ridiculous.
2. grammar schools do not create inequality - they perpetuate it.

Is anyone else getting a pop up advert for GDST on this thread?

My son is receiving an amazing education because he's clever and we're poor (enough) to get a bursary. His school also has a very good track record of going above and beyond its charitable obligations and teaching its children to understand the nature of their privilege and not take it for granted. It saddens me that not all children have such a fantastic education. But it would sadden me even more if schools like this were closed down so that nobody could benefit from them.