Are Dulwich indis still an option if DS didn't pass grammar

[MonkeySeeMonkey]

DS did really well on the Sutton Grammar mocks (top5%) but didn't fair as well with the real thing last week and hasn't passed unfortunately.

Does anyone have past experience of sitting both Sutton grammars and some of the South London entrance exams? In my head, it should be easier to get into one of DC, Trinity, Whitgift, Emanuel, etc as less competition, and 4 different tests so not all riding on one morning's performance, but I also know the competition will be fierce for those too so trying to reset my (and DS's) expectations.

Any advice or experience would be really welcome.

If it was a genuine off day, then yes I would say he has a decent chance.

You'll need to check the style of entrance papers against the exam techniques he already knows and make sure he knows what to expect.

Similar for interview prep - don't try to coach what to say, but confidence in speaking helps, as does thinking about what to talk about if asked about books recently enjoyed, hobbies, news stories etc

Generally kids who get into Sutton grammars are more scholarship level at good indies.

If he wasn’t far off going through, then he should get into a good indie quite easily. He should be able to have a good go at the top top indies too.

To echo what pp said, indies are different in that they interview pupils and also look for kids with more to offer like sport, music etc it isn’t just about doing well academically in the exam.

Depending on where you are and how academic you want it, also coed vs single sex, you could also consider Epsom, King’s, Kingston Grammar, Hampton. Or even try for Westminster.

Sorry but Sutton grammar kids are not generally scholarship level.

Kids who pass grammar school exams stand a good chance of passing independent exams. DC / Trinity/Whitgift definitely not easier to get into than Sutton grammars. Don't know about Emanuel.

If your ds is usually bright and does well at exams, and the Sutton result was a one off then he should get into one of the schools you list. Subject to being familiar with a different style of exam. But a scattergun approach that includes at least one banker is the only way to be sure.

My experience has been that ‘grammar able’ children usually stand a good chance of success at single sex indies provided the papers are similar. Especially where you have a couple of good schools close to each other. (I.e Trinity and Whitgift). I’d say the co-Ed’s are just as competitive and sometimes harder though, as you’ve got half the spaces per gender and an increased number of applications due to some parents actively not wanting single sex. Emanuel is vv popular at the moment.

It feels important to gather as much info as you can on why your DS didn’t perform as expected. If might have simply been an off day but if not you could look at some stress management/time management strategies to help him. (Consider also that kids are capable of deliberately self sabotaging if they don’t want to go somewhere!)

Best of luck and try not to feel too disheartened.

@DarlingOscar

I did tutor kids for a good few years (until 2 years ago). The Sutton and Kingston grammars are definitely more competitive than indies. Kids who don’t even come close to a grammar place often get offers from the top 100 indies. The kids that I could tell a year ahead would 99% get a grammar place, generally got academic scholarships at indies too.

This is all anecdotal, but in my daughter’s year (y9), 2 girls who did not get into grammar got 20% scholarship at a local girls’ indie; a boy who did not pass Sutton or St Olave’s Grammars, got into St D.

Last year, 2 boys from the same local SE London state primary who did not pass the Sutton or St Olave’s Grammar school tests got into Trinity.

I do think the grammar school tests are harder, as more people go for them. Also, the indie tests are in January rather than September, and that is a couple month’s extra prep time.

Thanks everyone. It;s hard to say if it was just an off day or what as you get absolutely no feedback on the exam and they aren't standard exams so can't try to replicate it. So my surprise was based off how he did in the mock exam earlier in the summer and how he's done on the other practice tests I've given him at home and just in general how capable he is (top performer in his year at 'outstanding' state school).

I was frustrated as I'd love for him to be in a school that stretches him -- not sure his current one does any more.

He's a pretty confident talker and enjoys talking to adults, so I think if he gets to interview stage he'll do okay - thank you for the tips on that though.

I really don't want to have to cram tutoring in so will try to make sure he does some more practice in the areas he's weaker on. I really don't think he was that stressed going in, but this has knocked his confidence a bit so hope it doesn't have a snowball effect. It looks like he may have quite a few if we go the scatter gun approach -- any ideas for schools that are "bankers"? I know it's insanely competitive at the moment and we're in the midst of a bulge. We are West Dulwich/West Norwood area so quite near to DC but also easy train journeys or on the bus route for the others mentioned.

Everyone's been pretty surprised so

OP, don’t know how much work your son did over the summer but I feel that usually plays a big part. Kids who only do a bit, work a bit more slowly and erratically come September. Kids who practised a lot in the holidays tend to do better at exams for the grammar.

In January, it should be a bit different.

I’m not quite sure where trains go for you but would you be able to get to Royal Russell? That could be a ‘banker’.

(Sorry, I don't know what "Everyone's been pretty surprised so" is doing there. I think that was supposed to go in an email I was writing in another tab.)

Royal Russel is a possibility transportation wise (just) and St Dunstans is another, though I've heard mixed feedback.

OP if you know already then I assume your son didn't pass the first stage? If that is the case, if your son is top of his class, is it not possible that your son made a mistake in the way he filled out the response sheet? Or is it possible it was his speed? What I mean is it might be worth making sure his technique is strong, because it might be more to do with that!

I know he could be faster on maths and that he didn't complete that section (but did guess the ones he missed). I can't remember how many he said. His English is incredibly strong (ranked 5th for boys in the mock) and maybe we were banking on that carrying him through as his maths result was more average.

He did pass for Greenshaw so I don't think he missed an entire section by being out a line or anything like that, but you're right in that he could probably get a bit faster at maths and better at knowing which problems will take time and should be skipped and returned to. Looking at some past threads on the 11+ boards it does look like some children's scores are erratic so we'll just keep up the practice and keep looking.

OP it's all a lottery - there was no logic to the offers ds and his friends got. BUT they have all ended up somewhere that suits them so perhaps each school is looking for something slightly different?

Best of luck with it all

Thanks Darling (originally read your name as DarlingOffer!) and everyone else. I'm feeling much better about it all and have some state schools to look at too. Definitely won't be home schooling him next year. Was just a bit rattled by his result and unsure of our footing, so really appreciate the hand holding. Onwards and upwards!